Why are the Ptolemaioi such a hated faction?

[abou]

well its my opinion. im sure they wont actually mind. if they went around digging their nose into everyone who didnt respect them theyd get nothing done.

Well, no, we wouldn't get much done. That doesn't mean we're cool with people calling things "gay". Please refrain from it on this board.

[Raygereio]

Well, let's see what my English dictionary has to say about the matter:
Gay:
1. having or showing a merry, lively mood: gay spirits; gay music.
2. bright or showy: gay colors; gay ornaments.

Surely, both definitions can apply to the Ptolemaioi?
I certainly would be in a merry and lively mood if I kicked the Arche Seleukia around like it's nobody's business and have more money then I know what to do with.
And those yellow colours of theirs, if that's not bright and showy I don't know what is...

(Sorry, I just can't resist dumb jokes like that)

Anyway:
In my experience, as long as the Arche's eastern front is stable enough so that they don't have to send a lot of resource that way; they can do a good job of halting the Ptolemaioi's advance to the north. Certainly long enough for the Saba and Carthaginians to start harassing them from the east and west, effectivly stopping the Ptolemaioi and force them on the defensive.

Only problem is that on campaign difficulties of hard or very-hard the Ptolemaioi's main target - Arche Seleukia -tends to switch to 'Rahr! Player! Smash!'-mode and starts to mindlessly attack you if you're a neighbouring faction, allowing the Ptolemaioi to strike in the Arche's soft underbelly early in the game, which is is not something the AI can deal with.

Usually though, I am able to use force-diplomacy to keep the Arche's east stable and keep them focussed on their west long enough (roughly 10-20 years) to allow the Arche's AI to build up a decent infrastructure, at which point they don't need help anymore and can actually defend themselves against the dreaded yellow fever.

Honestly though, if your criteria for hating a faction is that the AI will form a superpower 9 out 10 times, then why not hate the Sweboz of the Lusotanna too?

[Tyrfingr]

Because the most guys who are familiar with RTW's "The Mummy's return"-egyptians hates, by default, any faction used to represent Egypt during the timespan of 272BC and 0AD.

[keiskander]

I think the Ptolemaioi are real fun to play with and a nice addition of units. I see it hard to hate a faction in any way perhaps dislike playing with some factions since people have diffrent styles. Perhaps a harsh word but if anyone seriously hate a faction in a computer game perhaps a break from the game is needed.

[Gabeed]

I love the Ptolemies. They're easy to play because Ptolemy Soter was a freakin' genius. People who think they or their units are boring can go back to Vanilla. All I can think of when someone calls the Ptolemies boring is a frat boy shouting, "BUT THEY DON'T HAVE PHAROAH'S BOWMEN ANYMORE, BRO. I MIGHT AS WELL BE THE GREEKS IF THE EGYPT ISN'T GONNA HAVE GOOD UNITS." In conclusion, incest is awesome.

[Atraphoenix]

Who hates them?
I love them watching they kick ass of AS while I kick AS from east.
I love them sending me lots of elite full stacks so as to make my game interesting after I send AS to the ashes of history,
I love them so much when I am playing on the western part of the map whose right sight shining like gold so use sunglasses

I love them cursing a spell on my army that was paralyzed in the tile of death booooohhh
I love them so much if I need money they have lots of treasures so I can sack egypt whenever I need money they rebuild it easily

- --- - -- - -

who says their units sucks, you need see an optician.
BTW Ptolemaoi was not for play just to save player going bankrupt thanks to huge gains of sacking campaigns.

[Blxz]

I love the Ptolemies. They're easy to play because Ptolemy Soter was a freakin' genius. People who think they or their units are boring can go back to Vanilla. All I can think of when someone calls the Ptolemies boring is a frat boy shouting, "BUT THEY DON'T HAVE PHAROAH'S BOWMEN ANYMORE, BRO. I MIGHT AS WELL BE THE GREEKS IF THE EGYPT ISN'T GONNA HAVE GOOD UNITS." In conclusion, incest is awesome.

Gabeed, I distinctly remember you annihilating my roman army online with your evil, inbred killer army. Its 2am here, 7 months later and I am still too scared of having nightmares about your win for me to go to sleep.

I vaguely remember reading somewhere, maybe in EB text, that it is rumoured that Ptolemy Soter could have been an illegitimate older brother of Alexandros. An sources anyone can quote that can confirm what my coke addled brain is thinking?

[Ludens]

I vaguely remember reading somewhere, maybe in EB text, that it is rumoured that Ptolemy Soter could have been an illegitimate older brother of Alexandros. An sources anyone can quote that can confirm what my coke addled brain is thinking?

It came up in the "Was Alexander poisoned?" thread, and I recall reading about it in some old historical fiction, so it's definitely an existing theory.

[Ludens]

I've just removed most of the gay references. Please drop the subject and go back to discussing the vices of the Ptolemeans.

come to think of it why don't we just modify the script to give the AS a special 'anti yellow-plague' financial boost?

Unfortunately, that way you end up with the Grey death. The two should be closely matched, but balancing them is hard since you need to play dozens of campaigns to see if one consistently beats the other.

Yes or other option will be a kingdom of Judia? No?

Which will be quickly swallowed by either. Not to mention that it is extremely ahistorical, as Judea was at this point firmly under Ptolemean control, and even when independent wasn't remotely capable of expansionist action.

Iudaios? What's that?

Judea, one of the tribes of Israel.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Just to be fair: pre EB 1.0, the Yellow Death played no role at all, everybody was afraid of the Grey Death instead.

And I must add that EB 1.2 is the best balanced EB of all times. Sweboz east expansion, Roman north expansion, Karthadast sand wars, KH eating up father Makedonia, Baktria overrunning the steppe - all this has been successfully adressed. What remains is just the Yellow / Grey balance and Hayasdans conquering the Sarmatians.

[Apázlinemjó]

Just to be fair: pre EB 1.0, the Yellow Death played no role at all, everybody was afraid of the Grey Death instead.

And I must add that EB 1.2 is the best balanced EB of all times. Sweboz east expansion, Roman north expansion, Karthadast sand wars, KH eating up father Makedonia, Baktria overrunning the steppe - all this has been successfully adressed. What remains is just the Yellow / Grey balance and Hayasdans conquering the Sarmatians.

Yeah, Hayasdan AI likes to "roleplay" steppe factions instead of going south.

[Marcus Ulpius]

No reason to hate Ptolemaoi now. In 1.2 the AS usually beats them and destroys everything in Asia except may be some Saka or Bactria cities on the far east.

P.S. As was rightly mentioned, Hayasdan are always chasing ghosts in the steppes instead of making things more interesting for the AS and friends.

[Hax]

Ptolemaios I Soter was one of the best friends of Alexandros. There were a few people who deserved his empire after he died; I count Ptolemaios as being one of them.

[Mikhail Mengsk]

I don't like them because of their annoying colour and their potential big expansion. I also hate them because i remember the vanilla RTW's pharaoh's ridicolous units. And their uberoverpowered superarchers <.<

Also, i don't like ancient egyptians for no reason U_U

[satalexton]

for some reason, I still remember those archers killing every single i threw at them on the walls.......

....in fact, thats the only thing i remember about vanilla, other than the ninjas of barbaropolis....

[Cute Wolf]

Well, it looks like most are complaining about AS -ptolemaic wars......... maybe we should script AS - Ptolies defenders on gaza area (Script if both are AI controlled, each get reinforcements when another are the city holder) so they become stalled.

[bobbin]

I think the Ptolemaioi have a excellent unit roster it's just very limited map wise so you have to ship units everywhere which gets to be a pain.

As for why they're so hated its definitely their AI behavior, nobody likes fighting those horrificly powerful empires they tend to produce. The AS used to be just as hated for the same reason in older EB versions.

[Fluvius Camillus]

I don't hate the Ptolemaioi, I hate no faction.

And I hear people about hating them because they become too strong. Well people, that is the reason I am such a blitzer in most peoples eyes. A lot of people keep telling me that blitz ruins EB, well I dont know what you prefer, fighting most factions of the game because AI has not expanded so much yet. Or streams of fullstacks from the same faction over and over again....

~Fluvius

[The General]

I don't hate the Ptolemaioi, I hate no faction.

I don't hate, or even dislike any other faction except for Arche Seleukeia on steroids.

Few things are as rewarding as a game you've been playing for two-three days ruined by an attack by a maniacal Arche Seleukeia that is kicking the doodoo out of everyone (Ptolemaioi, Pahlava, Saka Rauka, Eleutheroi border provinces) and which insists on adding your name to its list of soon-to-be-vanquished foes.

Getting attacked by Ptolemies is something you can anticipate and usually, deal with. Unless you're playing as Hayasdan, it's quite likely you're going to meet them only on one relatively narrow front (the Qarthadastim in Africa, Baktria/Pahlava in Assyria/Mesopotamia, European factions in southern Anatolia) and you can just keep pushing. Trying to defeat Arche Seleukeia...

If only there was something close to the system in EUs, and the occasional period of peace. I admit I do not have the endurance to fight against an endless stream of stacks all the way to friggin' India like in the case of my recently-abandoned Makedonia game.

[Ibrahim]

Honestly, I don't know why anyone would hate to fight the ptolemioi-what is more awesome than an underdog, but wisly led, faction vs an elite spamming empire? it has a Star Wars quality to it. I had a boat load of fun fighting them as saba; I haven't had a more challenging, dangerous, and brutal fight in the various TW engines, save my lakhmid campaigns against the sassanid traitors in IJ.*


*ok, so I tend to play arabian ones first-y'got a problem? and yes, the sassanids usually start the trouble

[Blxz]

Whats IJ? I am on the look out for new mods. Any good?

[Ibrahim]

Whats IJ? I am on the look out for new mods. Any good?

Imperium julianorum: its a submod of IBFD. you can find it at the twcenter under INVASIO BARBARORVM: SOMNIVM APOSTATAE IVLIANI. the latest version is IJ3 (still a beta though). and yes, its very, very good-I helped research one of the factions myself (take a guess). its no EB, but it sure as heck comes close.


anyways, on topic: I still don't see ar eal reson why the ptolemioi are to be hated as an IA faction; they are indeed a worthy challenge/adversary.

and darn, this drew brees guy is driving me up the wall-what the heck is with him?

[Duguntz]

Why? simple : they use pikes and sarrissa, because they wear clothes and armours!... nothing equals sweboz's clubs and axes when they run to the battle with THEIR sarrissas in the fresh air! hahahahaha

Behold the return of the Swebozez!

cheers to all of you guys! I shall bring my worgozez back on the battlefield in october!

[gamegeek2]

Honestly though, if your criteria for hating a faction is that the AI will form a superpower 9 out 10 times, then why not hate the Sweboz of the Lusotanna too?

The Sweboz' infamous southern expansion was effectively nerfed by the scripted defenders. The Lusotana take a while to seize Hispania. The Ptollies seize control of most of the AS plus Aigyptos. Which seems the strongest?