Rethinking BI religion: government types

**Ferromancer** · 07-30-2009, 05:02

I've taken a look at implementing religion in EB for BI, but there are several insurmountable hurdles that affect realism. The first being that most religions (except for maybe Judaism vs. Roman Paganism) got along, and in fact, there were lots of syncretic religions popping up. Another problem is that religions spread too fast (20% in one year) to be realistic.

Instead I'm thinking of setting up a clash of politics. Since only the top three "religions" matter, I can think of three broad categories of government:

1) Res Publica
Typically what makes these governments unique is the idea of the "public" sphere, that government is established by a fixed body of law, and limitations to prevent one person or faction from taking power. Offices and responsibilities are clearly defined, with voting and term limits.

This would cover factions such as Rome, Koinon Hellenion, and Carthage which are known to have democracies or republics of some form.

2) The Clan
Similar to Res Publica that there is no single seat of authority. However, it is different in that there is no legal concept of the "state" or "nation"--though people may feel tied to a larger body of shared culture. Power is divided between chiefs, druids/priests/shamans, and wealthy families. Nobody runs for public office: power is gained through shows of wealth, wit, wisdom, or military prowess. Natural Law as opposed to Statutory Law rules the day.

This would cover Celtic, Germanic, and Steppe factions.

3) Imperium
Power is concentrated into the hands of a single person or family, with an extensive bureaucracy to administer rule. There is no divided government; the ruler legislates, executes the law, and administers justice. The only limit to authority is the assassin's knife.

This would cover just about every other faction.

4) Anarchy
This would apply to independent cities and those recently taken over through conquest.

The spread of different "religions"/polity would be through government types, I'm thinking Type I and Type II governments. Type III and Type IV governments would have no effect, and a total lack of government would spread the "anarchy" government.

I'm not sure what to do about the endgame when historically Rome goes from being a republic to an empire. Perhaps make it so that to replace Res Publica with Imperium, the imperial reform "building" will counteract the effect of the government building, and a family member would be needed in a city to tip the scales towards one or the other? This would simulate the strife and chaos in the Roman Empire due to civil wars between supports of the empire and of the republic.

**Atraphoenix** · 07-30-2009, 10:18

we have 9 types ,
so for steppe factions monarchy, clan federation, after reformed faction (pahlava, saka) maybe feudalism..

for hellenics, should be monarchy,

for celtics and germans clan federation suits well,

carthage monarchy, feudalism...

rome, anything may be suited

ptolemies may be teocracy,

and of course sparta agoge or what was is that or a general despotism for all faction...

anarchy suits heretic system namely if the government fails like sacked cities or rebels

but first we should decide which 3 are important as they will cause unrest.

also I think for type 4 govs we need a autonomy goverment.

On the other hand, we should not forget that the goverment system that we name now was not applied by the governors who was claimed as the follower of them so modern democracy should be just name in ancient hellenic factions like republic was just in name in rome that only rich people had the power (plutocracy) ..

so I can say that despotism, feudalism, monarchy, autonomy, clan federation, theocracy and anarchy like heretism system may suit EB time frame you may add republic or democracy but they were just in name only...

Imperialism or emperium was beyond its meaning in EB time frame. but Rome may be counted as an imperialistic empire.
but if we start to discuss implications of meanings this thread would be ballooned soon.

P.S. I hope you know how to handle traits with government types that I failed to adapt the traits for religions.

**Atraphoenix** · 08-05-2009, 12:26

any improvement do you still work on it ferromancer?
I hope you will not quit like me...

**thecellarlife** · 08-15-2009, 02:23

Oh man, please make this mod!

This is what is missing from EB, differences in governments between factions and cities in relation to religion. The game is already really complex, but with this added, I can see it taking the next step towards a realistic view of history, and also a more complex system depending on which faction you decide to play as.

I hope this is something that will be featured in EB2, but it can only help if someone makes a mod for this game. Sounds like a great idea, maybe very difficult to actually produce given the coding most likely required (I do not know, I am new to modding), but def. worth working on.

Any help you need in testing out some changes, just post a reply with a beta download for the mod if you decide to make it.

This is what I think using the M2TW engine might produce with EB2.