The Phalanx and Moral

[antisocialmunky]

Height advantage is broken and unmoddable. In those cases, get out of phalanx mode and run for the high ground.

[torongill]

I'm cheating, but against the pezhtaroi all I need to do is form the triarii/spartans in shieldwall , line them 3 deep and plunge in the forest of spears. They take it from there. I know this is cheating, but the problem is that the engine is not very good on pushing. So I use hoplites against them. Maybe against silvershields or the egema, the hoplites would do a poor job. Though it works for the armored hoplites only and only for the shieldwall formation. I wonder what are the bonii of the shieldwall?

[Ludens]

OT: I know I shouldn't act like a MOD but this has been really iritating me lately...

[rant]Can we stop turning random threads into Spartan wankfests already? They were interesting dudes, we get it.

If you're going to bring them up, atleast keep it on topic. We're talking about Phalanxes and psychological warfare, not about the reasons why military socialism declined in Greece.[/rant]

We don't enforce a strict on-topic policy because often spin-off discussions can be just as interesting as the original (unless they are spam, off course). However, if the participants wish it, I can move posts relating to the decline of Sparta to a new thread.

[antisocialmunky]

We don't enforce a strict on-topic policy because often spin-off discussions can be just as interesting as the original (unless they are spam, off course). However, if the participants wish it, I can move posts relating to the decline of Sparta to a new thread.

Well I wasn't intimating that you were, but as you may or mayn ot have noticed, this is like the second or third thread that has meandered this direction of specifics of the late Spartan state.

This has been a trend lately on the EB fora that the same people drag the same topic over multiple threads. So you had a naturally developping thread until someone mentioned "Spartans were known for ....", "Hoplites did....", or even "Romans." Then the thread would be turned into "I believe that the glory days of Sparta ended with those last 8000-9000 Spartan phalangites", "Hoplites did not do that", "Rome sucks, Macedon Rules" etc regardless of previous topic. This is not natural progression of the coversation, its dragging the baggage from a previous thread and pitching camp in a new thread all to the loss of the OP's topic. While this is certainly fine in threads where the conversation has ended, its frustrating when the thread is still going or trying to go on topic but people won't let the original conversation resume.

Of course you're opinion may differ and I'm not commenting on your modding abilities which have been quite good so far.

EDIT: Nvm, it doesn't seem to be as wide spread as I got the impression that it did. So I guess my intent was to nip this in the bud before it got to Hoplites and Rome Sucks levels. Just ignore my over reaction then.

[Marcus Ulpius]

Phalanx is already a lethal weapon against the clueless AI. I'm in the middle of my Seleucid campaign and I fight wars on every border. As I can't send equal forces against each enemy, I have to play defensively in many places. That means defending towns with cheap Pantodapoi Palangitai and it works wonders. I had I full stack of Catas and armored HA's being sent home packing by 4 nooby phalanx units, some light support and a mercenary general. Giving phalanxes "intimidate" factor would instantly rout most enemies.

Of course it would be fine that the tactic of pinning down the phalanx with some cheap cannon fodder and flanking with heavies would be rendered less effective. After all, I can't believe that poorly trained, undisciplined and unarmored peasants could be forced to throw themselves onto the pikes to allow professional troops to go round the phalanx and do their job. But I don't know how you can make that "intimidation" factor work only on levies and not on professional well equipped units.

[Ludens]

Posts discussing the decline of the Spartans have been moved to this thread. Posts responding to those without relating to either topic have been deleted.

EDIT: Nvm, it doesn't seem to be as wide spread as I got the impression that it did. So I guess my intent was to nip this in the bud before it got to Hoplites and Rome Sucks levels. Just ignore my over reaction then.

Judging by several of the deleted posts a few forum members share your opinion, at least on the recurring Spartans. I don't particularly want to enforce strict on-topic rules: that also inhibits potentially interesting discussions. However, if participants let me know when they think an off-topic discussion is taking over a thread that is still in use for the original discussion, I can split the thread.

[king of thracia]

Alexander the Great had to do more than just scare people with pezhetairoi. He had to lead many cavalry charges. Well he didn't have to personally but you catch my drift.

Actually, that's exactly what he did. That's why the Makedon cavalry are called the 'Companions'

[Weebeast]

Actually, that's exactly what he did. That's why the Makedon cavalry are called the 'Companions'

Legolas and Gimli are also part of fellowship to Frodo. Where are you going with this? So phalangite are so scary that they need to be baby sitted? If all he had to do was to scare people with them so why bring companions? To much walking? Nope. He knew no [cavalry] flanking, no skirmisher support, etc means failure.

Also what scary to one individual is different for others so I'm not gonna touch that. For the most part though, war is scary. That is timeless.

[ARCHIPPOS]

Where are you going with this?

I think he meant that Alexander personally lead the cavalry charges ...

[A Very Super Market]

To be honest a phalanx would only be scary if you were ordered to actually attack it. If you were simply standing around it, I doubt you would feel anything other than a generic fear of battle. Sure, they have long pointy things, but long pointy things aren't exactly exotic. It isn't as if they're riding elephants or swinging both their swords around in circles.

Does there even need to be a "scare factor" added to phalanxes? Attacking them head-on would be pretty scary, and it's exactly the case in EB. Levies will be ineffectual and run, while elites will simply be ineffectual (Unless you do some exploitation).

[Duguntz]

T othat question, i must post my personal opinion, wich i oblige nobody to take... But phalangite are surely very impressive. now are they scary? not. What was scary, for the time, is naked religious fanatics, their body painted pitched black, shouting the names of their 100'ds gods when they jumped in ambuhs in the night, bitting their shield and running ahed no matter what were the chances to die because anyway they were druged and felt no pain... that was scary. do not confond scary AND impressive!

that was only the opinion of a Sweboz dedicated fan!

[seienchin]

I modified the units in Eb a little bit. Especially the phalanx. They are easier to kill, but also kill more enemies , which also causes a little bit more fear. Why dont you try it out?