Scary units

[lobf]

To support a previous point by Macilrille, yeah, if the life expectancy was only one battle, do really think that anybody would have picked that career path. It would have simply been a glorified form of suicide, which while practiced quite often among jihadists(Think truck bomb), was not as common among hired soldiers.

On the other hand, berserker death rates were probably pretty high. Think about it. The berserker has no armor and fights off about 20 guys while probably being stabbed several times. No matter how berserk you are, a stab wound through your intestines is going to kill you eventually.

You understand everything you said here is baseless conjecture, right? And none of it can be taken seriously because you have presented no evidence? Or even pretended like you have evidence?

[Prussian to the Iron]

I hope you guys understand the difference between Berserker and Naked Berserker.

Remember: Berserkers do not necessarily have to run around with no armor. No matter how they are portrayed, there's no way eveysingle Berserker just ran around without armor. Especially in an army where they were hired.

[Prussian to the Iron]

I hope you guys understand the difference between Berserker and Naked Berserker.

Remember: Berserkers do not necessarily have to run around with no armor. No matter how they are portrayed, there's no way eveysingle Berserker just ran around without armor. Especially in an army where they were hired.

Nobody has responded to this: Berserkers don't have to be naked or unarmoured.

[Ludens]

I am going to repeat lobf's and macrille's requests for sources. For the benefit of the discussion, can the next person that makes a claim about berserkers (of any kind) back it up with references?

I mean, the existence of berserkers is hazy enough to start with.

[Phalanx300]

I mean, the existence of berserkers is hazy enough to start with.

http://books.google.nl/books?id=9bId...age&q=&f=false

Page 57.

[Prussian to the Iron]

that was a very interesting section. reading a couple pages more talks about the Assyrian berserkers, and where they might have come from. thanks for that excellent read!

[Ludens]

http://books.google.nl/books?id=9bId...age&q=&f=false

Page 57.

I've skimread the text, and it doesn't convince me. The author seems to include every example of soldiers fighting impetuously and without armour (naked or not). That's not berserk, that normal tribal warfare. He also designates a figure on Trajan's column a berserker because his great stature and northern look are the hallmark of a berserker... There's more of such questionable examples: which I think proves my point that berserker is an ill-defined concept.

The section on Scandinavian berserkers seems more reliable, though.

[Phalanx300]

I've skimread the text, and it doesn't convince me. The author seems to include every example of soldiers fighting impetuously and without armour (naked or not). That's not berserk, that normal tribal warfare. He also designates a figure on Trajan's column a berserker because his great stature and northern look are the hallmark of a berserker... There's more of such questionable examples: which I think proves my point that berserker is an ill-defined concept.

The section on Scandinavian berserkers seems more reliable, though.

Well I think he's believable, he also talked about the Chatti in that book and how their youth didn't actually cut their beirds but simply removed the hair in front of the face(and iron/bronze necklace) and trow it backwards, he then calls a number of Germanics looking just like that found portraying that area.

Though he uses a bit of speculation.

He basicly sums up the warriors usually going by the word Berserker warriors:

Wolf warriors, Bear warriors, Long hairs(because of their extreme loyality and their frenzy to avenge a fallen leader, he also mentions the Germanic Bodyguards of some Emperors doing just this and killing his murderers), Naked Berserkers.

Also a interesting thing is that he mentions they would get themselves in a frenzy which would cause them to get high on adrenaline which docters also use to stop down bleeding in surgery. Which might be why we always hear them to be "invulnerable" to weapons and fire. And also why they were always very weak after a battle.

[athanaric]

You understand everything you said here is baseless conjecture, right? And none of it can be taken seriously because you have presented no evidence? Or even pretended like you have evidence?

I cannot confirm what he said about berserkers, but the part about jihadists (or whatever you might call them) is absolutely correct, if that was the part you were pointing at. The "glorified suicide" is a well-known phenomenon of our days, though I know of no evidence for it happening in ancient times.

[lobf]

I cannot confirm what he said about berserkers, but the part about jihadists (or whatever you might call them) is absolutely correct, if that was the part you were pointing at. The "glorified suicide" is a well-known phenomenon of our days, though I know of no evidence for it happening in ancient times.

...So you just made a post that says "jihadists make truck bombs."

Thank you, Sherlock, but I know. Three guesses as to whether or not I come to ancient history discussion forums to debate the (absolutely provable, because it's documented by the media) practices of modern day religious nutjobs.

[Macilrille]

I think I shall quote myself, narcissist as it is,

Gallic naked dudes... I think would be in trouble against veterans, but might scare green troops. But again we know too little, and have too few actual sources to make a real analysis. And as with the Vikings, this leaves much room for fantasy to work its unenlightening ways...