Scary units

[antisocialmunky]

The standard 'scary' trait on naked units is rather ridiculous. The effect can rout units along the other end of the line by their crazy range. Is it possible to give them the bee/diseased stat instead on their primary weapons so they only scare the units they engage? This would be more realistic. Elephants can be seen and heard by everyone in the army and have an ability to kill the whole army but the scary infantry would only affect their immediate opposition...

[Blxz]

The standard 'scary' trait on naked units is rather ridiculous. The effect can rout units along the other end of the line by their crazy range. Is it possible to give them the bee/diseased stat instead on their primary weapons so they only scare the units they engage? This would be more realistic. Elephants can be seen and heard by everyone in the army and have an ability to kill the whole army but the scary infantry would only affect their immediate opposition...

Although if I was a farmer with a spear, shoved into battle the first time (or 10th time for that matter), I would find a bunch of naked screaming guys standing in the opposing battle line pretty scary. I wouldn't wait until they cut my buddy's head off before I realised "ohh, they are actually scary".

What you are suggesting might be worth tweaking a bit if range can be changed, but I think the bee thingy status would be the wrong way of going about it.

[The General]

If I saw a raging naked maniac tear a guy in two twenty meters from me, I'd be scared, even if he wasn't attacking my unit - he might be attacking us next...

[penguinking]

Big naked men standing fearlessly in battle, waving huge swords and shouting loud battle cries, seemingly unafraid of death... that strikes me as rather terrifying to the Roman soldier.

"Very terrifying too were the appearance and the gestures of the naked warriors in front, all in the prime of life, and finely built men, and all in the leading companies richly adorned with gold torques and armlets."
-Polybius

[antisocialmunky]

Yes, it should be scary if you're near it but if thsoe guys are a few hundred meters down the line, its unrealistic.

[The Celtic Viking]

Only the bee/diseased trait wouldn't be any more realistic, since that would only effect those attacked, when attacked. The naked guys scared the enemy - and not just the specific guys they attacked - long before that by their look, their sound, their reputation and their crazy, drugged up charge... not to mention their Superman-like stunts such as pulling javelins out of their chests and throwing it back before they charge.

The scare trait might not be perfect, but it is IMO the best option available.

[Paltmull]

Hey, if tweaking the "scare range" is possible, why not use both that and the bee/disease trait? The effect would be that they slightly scared the enemy around them but scared the hell out of those they attacked. Or does the "scary" trait already have that effect?

[antisocialmunky]

Ick, that would require a ridiculous amount of morale on all units as neither effect or range are moddables.

[Paltmull]

Oh. Stupid hardcoding. :(

[Rahwana]

Maybe we could have a better result if we put the levies' morale on "low" rather than normal?

[lobf]

crazy, drugged up charge...

No, dammit. No.

[The Celtic Viking]

What?

[Moros]

What?

He doesn't get enough attention probably.

[antisocialmunky]

Didn't someone mentions that Gaesatae were going to be revised in EBII?

[Moros]

Didn't someone mentions that Gaesatae were going to be revised in EBII?

Of course every single unit is going to be redone from scrap. Both historically as moddelingwise. Actually the unit lists as well. They won't be based on EBI.

[jazstl]

Some very, very elites may say if he is naked he would be easier to kill....

[antisocialmunky]

Just because something is naked does not mean it is easily killed. Example: Bears are naked and not particularly easy to kill even when not drugged up to their eyeballs though the latter is much more entertaining.

[athanaric]

Just because something is naked does not mean it is easily killed. Example: Bears are naked and not particularly easy to kill even when not drugged up to their eyeballs though the latter is much more entertaining.

Er... bears usually have a thick fur and are more massive than humans...

[Moros]

Just because something is naked does not mean it is easily killed. Example: Bears are naked and not particularly easy to kill even when not drugged up to their eyeballs though the latter is much more entertaining.

THIS IS CANADA!

Sorry I couldn't help myself.

[lobf]

What?

No drugs. No evidence.

Didn't someone mentions that Gaesatae were going to be revised in EBII?

Yes.

Edit- Since I got a PM from Ludens, I guess I should make myself clear. This isn't some crusade against the team. Your game is fantastic and deep and intellectual. However, in a few spots, for whatever reason, some theoretical or a-historical content made it into the game.

I don't think there's anyone on the team who still (at least publicly) believes any of the fantastical things added by you-know-who, but unfortunately a lot of the members here today weren't around when these facts were in contention.

If people bothered checking their assertions before posting them, we wouldn't have this issue. But unfortunately a lot of people are content with simply hearing it from someone else. Again, I'm not attacking the team, I'm attacking the lack of intellectual rigor exhibited on the forums.

[Phalanx300]

Er... bears usually have a thick fur and are more massive than humans...

When someone fights without any disregard of pain he will be hard to kill.

General live expectancy of a berserker was one battle, and I can bet they killed more then they were killed.

[antisocialmunky]

Er... bears usually have a thick fur and are more massive than humans...

So are Celts.

Aparently the occupation of acting as crazy half-naked shock troops wasn't that fatal, the Vikings actually had problems dealing with all the out of work beserkers that were bumming around after the Norse civil wars were done with.

[The Celtic Viking]

No drugs. No evidence.

That is a debate that I won't get in to, and it is irrelevant for my point anyway. Whether they took some substance or if they were just "high on battle" or whatever, the effect was the same. If you want me to say "frenzied charge" rather than "drugged up" I can do that, but the contextual difference is slim at best.

[athanaric]

So are Celts.

[antisocialmunky]

That is a debate that I won't get in to, and it is irrelevant for my point anyway. Whether they took some substance or if they were just "high on battle" or whatever, the effect was the same. If you want me to say "frenzied charge" rather than "drugged up" I can do that, but the contextual difference is slim at best.

I could live with them having an amazing initial charge + fear. It might insta-rout many units.

Also, does anyone have that gif of the EBII Gaesatae sword swinging animation of amazingness?

[Blxz]

Er... bears usually have a thick fur and are more massive than humans...

Its also reasonable to assume that trying to kill a bear that was covered in thick armour is harder than trying to kill a bear with no armour. So by that same account trying to kill a crazy naked guy is easier than trying to kill a crazy armoured guy.

[Abokasee]

Its also reasonable to assume that trying to kill a bear that was covered in thick armour is harder than trying to kill a bear with no armour. So by that same account trying to kill a crazy naked guy is easier than trying to kill a crazy armoured guy.

Not necessarily, for example Gothic Plate is hardly the most manuverable of a equipment especially when compared to "au naturale" berserker performing stunts in the middle of a Roman Formation. Although yes, the guy in Gothic Plate is much more likely to see another days battle rather than the berserker who is much more likely to see a white light with various spats of blood.

[Moros]

Not necessarily, for example Gothic Plate is hardly the most manuverable of a equipment especially when compared to "au naturale" berserker performing stunts in the middle of a Roman Formation. Although yes, the guy in Gothic Plate is much more likely to see another days battle rather than the berserker who is much more likely to see a white light with various spats of blood.

Oh hi abokasee! Great to see you still around.

[Iasonis]

They should be more susceptible to projectiles and arrow fire, it doesnt really matter how skilled you are if your naked, unless your in the matrix then you can dodge between the arrows.
I agree the fear they cause should be fixed, but maybe there is a better solution??
***What about the trait they had in medieval total war original, they had a trait "causes fear to undisciplined units", so your undisciplined troops would usually break if they faced them but the highly skilled would stand strong.
Also within your own army all of the undisciplined units that would rout would not effect your trained disciplined troops. I wish they kept this feature...
I dont know if you can port the trait in somehow or recreate it.

[Macilrille]

When someone fights without any disregard of pain he will be hard to kill.

General live expectancy of a berserker was one battle, and I can bet they killed more then they were killed.

Source?? I am- as you might have noticed- a Danish Viking Age/medieval historian and I can think of no source saying this. Enlighten me please.

Aparently the occupation of acting as crazy half-naked shock troops wasn't that fatal, the Vikings actually had problems dealing with all the out of work beserkers that were bumming around after the Norse civil wars were done with.

Again I would very much appreciate a source for this assertation...