Most legitimate diadochi?

I´ve been wondering for some time, which of the diadochi (the sucessors of megas alexandros) nations could be more "legitimate" heirs of Alexander. I know there is probably not a single answer, but who do you think deserves more to claim that title?

I personally think that the Arche Seleukeia are the most close to the idea that Alexander had for this empire. While there was a elite macedonian class, they also mixed a lot with the native persians and developed the idea of the greek-persian culture, adopting many local customs. In many ways fullfilling the wishes of Alexander.

Who diadochi do you think was more worthy of reuniting Alexander´s empire? There were any diadochi which supported the heir of Alexandros (iirc it was Perdicas) and were no involved in the assasinations?

I know, a very heated topic. Let´s hope it can be discussed without much problems. I just want to know which diadochi would have Alexander supported, if he were alive.

Originally Posted by Bucefalo

?

I just want to know which diadochi would have Alexander supported, if he were alive.

The Strongest

Difficult question. Alexandros IV and Philipos Arrhidaios were true heirs. I am not fan of Kasandros, because he was behind their murder. Ptolemy was not interested in reuniting the emipre, he understood that it is impossible and wanted to reign only in Egypt. Perhaps Seleukos had the best starting position and was able to do that. But my favourite successor dynasty are Antigonids and Antigonos was on a good way to control large part of emire, but he stood against very powerful aliance.

The Strongest

AKA you will fight to be the strongest but the only result will be that you will destroy each other and I will remain the one and only Megas (it is a funny idea of Alexandros saying it with this on mind)

Well this is really an interresting question and as you said there is no single answer.

I think Alexander didn't wish his empire to be torn apart like it had been. The point when he married about 1000 of his soldiers and nobles to persian maidens and took a persian wife himself (I quess one of the daughters of Darius III although I'm not sure about that right now) seems to suggest this.

Also his last words are a matter of debate. It has been quoted alot that when asked who should inherit his throne Alexandros said "toi kratisto" - "to the strongest", however it was rumoured that he actually said "Craterus" the name of one of his friends and infatry commanders, but the generals around him simply refused to hear that answer and rather took out the meaning of the strongest so that one of them should be seen as "the successor".

Now back to the question: I agree that the Seleukids possibly came closest to what Alexander had imagined his empire to be like in the future. From that point of view I would consider them the true successors of the great conquerer even though they failed in the conflict against Rome. There rulers were Heterogenes and descended from Seleucus and his wife of persian descent (and stayed with her for the rest of his time while most other Makedones left there "Susa wifes" later on). I find it truly amazing what he had achieved during his life: from an officer to general to King of the east and almost King of Makedonia also if he had not been killed ....

The possibly next in line would have been Ptolemy and his heirs. Although I personally dislike them to some extent for several reasons it must be admitted that they were one of the most succesfull diadochi for a long time. That Ptolemy stole the body of Alexandros leads back to a Makedonian traditon: the new King had to give the passed one a decent burial and legitimize his own rule with it. The rumors of Ptolemy being an illigemate son of Philippos II (Alexanders Father) could even give him some right to the throne The biggest problem I find in them is that Ptolemy and his heirs never tried to reunite the empire of Alexandros but stayed with ruling only Aigyptos. This solid objective and the fact that they stayed out of the Diadochi wars gave them a secure position of rule. The adoption of old egyptian customs decreases there claim however. So does the way they ruled: they considered the Egyptians lower peoples and relied on nobles an soldiers of Makedonian, Hellenic, Galatian and other nationalities to "keep the native peoples in check" - this stands in the opposite of what Alexandros had intended.

Of the other Diadochi I would not speak at the moment. I find the two above to be the most legitimate heirs (by deed, power and position) to the Empire of Megas Alexandros.

(I really wonder what Maion would have said on this matter.....)

Lysimachos. It's a shame he died so early :<

I actually wonder about this every once in a while, and I've gotten to thinking: what exactly did Alexandros say on his deathbed (in greek)? is "to the strongest" really what he meant?

Antigonos, he was the original :-p Plus you have to be pretty awesome to be a 81 year old man with one eye charging into battle without any armor.

Pyrrhus, he was a cousin of Alexander and prooved to be a great general.

Originally Posted by Ibrahim

I actually wonder about this every once in a while, and I've gotten to thinking: what exactly did Alexandros say on his deathbed (in greek)? is "to the strongest" really what he meant?

Like I said it is very debated, I think if he was poisoned by some of his leading men then the poisoner(s) would have tried to influence what was said of alexnadros and his last words. The "Miss-hearing of Craterus" is also a possibility. Some of his Generals clearly wanted a piece of the empire for themself - would denying or changing the last words of there dying ruler been too much for them or not?

Also over 2000 years later it is almost impossible to say what really happened.

Originally Posted by Phalanx300

Pyrrhus, he was a cousin of Alexander and prooved to be a great general.

He might have claimed that Alexandros talked to him in his dreams, but while his famous ancestor simply could not stop conquering, Pyrrhus often simply interrupted his campaings without really finishing them. I don't mean his campaing against Rome - he was simply outmaned but still managed to gain many victories (more than anyone had expected) at high costs.

He was no doubt very popular among the Hellenes - during his first invasion of Makedonia the soldiers simply went over on his side. But after the galatians (whom he had entruested to guard) had sacked some of the royal tombs his popularity dropped alot. No wonder they didn't welcome him with open arms later on.

Also his war on the Peleponesos proved fathel for him and his son. I don't question that he was a great general, but he simply didn't quite fit into the picture of a new Alexander in some aspects.

His death was truly tragical - one not meant for a great general like him....

I would argue that there WERE no legitimate heirs to Alexander's empire. Alexander was a truly unique personality, with enough tactical skill to continuously defeat larger armies, enough foresight to integrate his Persian conquests as much as possible, and enough charisma to convince his soldiers to follow him thousands of miles from their homes into hostile lands. Perhaps if he had lived onger he might have found some way to make a peaceful transition, but as soon as Alexander died his empire died with him, as none of his generals came even close to having the same persona as he did.

Originally Posted by TKaz84

I would argue that there WERE no legitimate heirs to Alexander's empire.

I'd second that.

Alexander took the tiny (but powerful) nation of Makedonia and conquered hundreds of other independent nations in less than a couple of years. When Alexander hastly passed away, leaving no heir of mature age to establish a dynasty, the status of the conquered nations would be "nullified" and "terra nova" - available for everyone strong enough to conquer them again.

To summarize, Makedonia (and it's ruler) is the legitimate successor of the pre-Alexander makedonian kingdom, and the Empire of Alexander pretty much ceased to exist.

As far as i'm concerned, Perdiccas was fighting for the rights of Alexander's son until he was defeated by Seleucus. Antigonos Monoftalmos, in turn, was firghting to preserve the unity of Alexander's monarchy.

Their actions might have been the closest to "legitimate", but they were completely unrealistic - the most sensible thing to do was the action of Ptolemy, who declared himself king as the first of the diadochii. He knew that fighting for the Argead dynasty or trying to preserve the unity of the empire was a lost cause.

Ah, here begins the Alexander worship. Philip II created the most powerful military and political machine the Greek states had ever known. It included the Cities, the Highlands, and the greater part of Thrace.

What did Alexander do? Took Daddy's army, and Daddy's generals, and went crazy.

His conquests were the ultimate Gap Year gone wrong. Take a look at the map, after he kills Parmenion at Babylon it all goes to hell.

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Ah, here begins the Alexander worship. Philip II created the most powerful military and political machine the Greek states had ever known. It included the Cities, the Highlands, and the greater part of Thrace.

What did Alexander do? Took Daddy's army, and Daddy's generals, and went crazy.

His conquests were the ultimate Gap Year gone wrong. Take a look at the map, after he kills Parmenion at Babylon it all goes to hell.

I agree with you, I also hold Phillip in a higher view then Alexander. I would rather fight with him then with Alexander.

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

What did Alexander do? Took Daddy's army, and Daddy's generals, and went crazy.

.

Didn't George Dubya Bush try and do something similar? He had the supposedly strongest army in the world and has led the country into a steady decline. When can we see america break up into the sucessor states I wonder?

Guess that makes the inbred deep south as the Ptolmies. Wonder who forms the other factions? Careful of the roman red tide...(china maybe?)

History repeats itself.