An Interesting Modification: Loyal Alliances for RTW & M2TW

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

A bright fellow in the TWC fora has apparently done the impossible. He managed to mod the game and prevent the AI from attacking allies due to hardcoded AI stupidity or inherently aggressive stance, and without modifying any AI files to boot. Here's a short description of the mod, which is primarily designed for the TATW mod:

If two factionsare not allies, then the changes no longer apply in any way. The only thing the mod does is stop allies from attacking one another straight out with an army or navy. So when an allies army is hanging around you don’t have to be afraid of them attacking you, you can rest assured they are there to help you as the decision to send it there was made that way, my mod removes the attacking ally with an army decision, so by sending the army there they intend to help.

So anyone is capable to forge an alliance the same way as usual, at any time, I do not interfere with anything at all other than simply removing armies, and navies, decision to attack your army, port, or settlement. If they want to be hostile they have the option to do so through ‘cold war’ tactics (spy, merchant, assassin, bad diplomacy) and eventually when you become annoying enough a diplomatic exchange will trigger them to advise they want to shift from allies to neutral which will allow them to attack you.

Like I said, do not ever use the word ‘unbreakable’ as it is a title only (thus thread name change), my mod in no way forces alliances, what my mod does is create a foundation to set up other ai files such as the descr_strat and AI.xml files to create the true ‘unbreakable’ alliances.

Oh, and additionally, scripted conditions can break an alliance, they are useful because sometimes the allied factions never decide to break the alliances on their own if everything is working out. So say like turn 500 we check if two are allied and if they are we break it. Or if a character with a nasty trait like betrayer or simply he has low respect/loyalty, ect, if he is in an allies region we can check that and break the alliance so he has an opportunity to strike! Or the region owner can try to expel him..

Here is the link to the mod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=255238

I'm interested in knowing if this is ever going to be ported to EB one day. Maybe that will make the AI a bit less treacherous and more self-contained? It does not prevent wars completely since alliances can still be broken before a war, but it makes alliances actually worth it now and can be used to direct the AI war effort to an acceptable and historical direction (ie Ptolies not attacking the Carthies and so on).

And lastly here's the link for RTW vanilla: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...37#post5875037

[Scud]

This will work with Vanilla AND ANY OTHER MOD - so long as you do not have to over-write any of the files.

Which one of us will test out this poison chalice for EB?

[Subotan]

Yesssssssssssssssssss
EDIT: Seeing as how I should probably have some serious comment for this, then I must say that this looks really, really promising. One of the things which has turned me off from the TW series - and by extension, sadly EB - has been the totally illogical and random diplomacy. Now, thanks to this, there may be a glimmer of hope for TW yet.

[DaciaJC]

Works well enough for me (EB 1.2).

I can imagine, though, how this may be abused, with players grabbing an alliance from every nearby faction and then sitting back in comfort while building up a massive invasion force while the AI can't do much anything.

[Tartaros]

Whow - thats very interesting. i enjoy the alliancescript in tatw 1.2 very much.
didn´t know that they release a mod for rtw.
thanx for the info

[Scud]

Works well enough for me (EB 1.2).

Thanks for dipping your toe into the water...it seems its safe then to install this mod for EB.

[Subotan]

@EB Team
Is it likely that we'll see this is EBII?

[Moros]

@EB Team
Is it likely that we'll see this is EBII?

Well personally I feel it might not be a bad idea to include, either standard or as an option. An internal discussion on this has yet to occurs, I think.

[Subotan]

KK. Keep us posted.

[Moros]

Sure. :)

[Kevin]

Hm, does anyone know if it works for alex.exe?

[Scud]

I've just tested this out, and I have to say that this file does not work, well it does *work* but it doesn't live up to the promises made by it's creator.

Sure, you're not allowed to attack your allies as that is disabled (so I know I installed it and got it to *work* correctly), but playing as Pontos I was still greeted by the AS randomly attacking, like usual. And this was a saved game I already had, so contray to the creators claims, it doesnt seem to be compatible with saved games.

Yes, I know the creator of this mod such a thing was not possible, with the AI only being able attack after breaking an alliance via diplomacy, but this did not happen. Me and the AS are allied, the mod is installed, I can't attack them, I end the turn and the next thing I know without any diplomatic dealings I was attacked - just like the good old days before this supposed holy grail arrived.

Just to test things, I forced diplomacy to have a peace and an alliance with the AS again...and lo and behold, five turns down the line I was attacked (with me not being allowed to attack them prior to this due to the alliance) without any diplomatic warnign at all.

In short, a disappointment. :/

[mlc82]

Edit, sorry just saw you said it was with an already saved game. Will post later and let you all know whether the AI goes beserk with me on the new game or not.

Scud, did you start using it mid-campaign? I'm testing it out with just vanilla RTW (much quicker play/turns to test with than EB) and on a totally new campaign, so far my allies border me (on campaign "Hard"), have some large armies next to my relatively small garrisons, and aren't bothering me yet (40 turns in or so, been aliied for at least 20)- a far cry from the instant whack-a-mole game most vanilla RTW campaigns quickly devolve into.

I tried starting a campaign without the mod, making an alliance, then adding the mod in, and they attacked me relentlessly despite it. Not sure if this is just a fluke thing, or if you absolutely need to start a new campaign with it, though it doesn't sound like it should matter.

[mountaingoat]

interesting , keep testing out the vanilla camp , from what i have read about the changes , seems like it should work ..

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

That's actually interesting - I mean the conflicting reports. Better to keep testing it on both previous saves and new games to find a result. If the problem lies with the mod not being entirely save compatible, then it's just a minor thing we can warn the creator of. And hopefully, not be backstabbed in the next Pontos campaign.

[DaciaJC]

Strange, I did some extensive testing with my current Getai campaign and the mod seem to deliver. However, if one feels the need to do away with the mod, the two files can be simply deleted. There was supposed to be no overwriting.

[antisocialmunky]

Doesn't this mean you'll ahve to fight some sort of MONOLITHIC PONTUS/HAY/BAKTRIA/PARTHIA/SELUKIA SUPER BLOC?

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

lol

To say something useful, it's not like alliances are permanent.

[antisocialmunky]

Basically it would require them allying with some random faction and having the AS declare on that faction since the AI usually doesn't break alliances for the most part.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

AFAIK for the original M2TW version a scripted condition was created that broke the alliances, either as a result of some conditions (like having a treacherous faction leader) or if a spy or assassin were detected performing missions on an ally. So it's not "unbreakable", only impossible to break by the traditional AI method of launching sneak attacks with two-men stacks.

[Zarax]

Doesn't seem reliable on BI, I get always backstabbed within 5 turns...

[Scud]

Well I'm going to start a new Pontos campaign (H/M same as before), so this mini-mod will be working from turn 0, so I'll report my findings back.

(It's just as quick for me to test with EB rather than vanilla, for last week I upgraded my desktop PC to a new laptop complete with 4 gig, well 3 gig due to it being 32-bit, of RAM - it feels good).

[Skullheadhq]

Haha, this will make Pontos easy as hell. And historical as well, since the AS wouldn't betray their own satraps just for lulz.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Actually not. Pontos has much to reap from the wealth of Anatolian settlements controlled by the Arche, and without them it kinda nerfs them unintentionally. Later if they want to break away they'll have to face the late game elite spam, instead of the pantodapoi waves of the 260's, so it's actually more difficult for the minor Eastern factions to wait until the Arche can strenghten its own position.

[Scud]

I just have to say that this mod doesn't work, and fails to deliver on its promises to stop random AI aggression. :/

So I started a new Pontos game, exactly the same as before H/M, with the mod installed from turn 0, and like before, I was betrayed by the AS without any diplomatic warning to myself (but again, beforehand I could not attack them). So even when ruling out the issue of save-game compatibility the mod still does not work as promised.

All I have to say is that the creator promises a lot but he fails to deliver, unless there can be some clarity over the aggresive nature of the AI on hard and/or EB, or just the bad diplomatic relations between Pontos and AS that means the mod is just not suited to work with EB. But still, that's beside the point as the creator stated that the AI would at least cancel the alliance before attacking, this did not happen once.

[Paltmull]

unless there can be some clarity over the aggresive nature of the AI on hard

Doesn't seem to have anyting to do with difficulty. I started a Pontos campaign at Medium level and I too got attacked by the AS after a while, without warning.

[Subotan]

No one got my Citizen Kane reference :(

[moonburn]

i guess persians and greeks can´t get along no matter how much script you put on it

anyway is it just me that the mod comunity found a solution that was killing the longevity of the game ?

kudos for the creator