Go forth and multiply

[Idaho]

Life changes when you have children. You see things differently.

[Adrian II]

Life changes when you have children. You see things differently.

Yeah, with green baby doodoo on your spectacles and two inch bags under your eyes for lack of sleep, you see things very, but very differently. Don't worry, you'll come out a stronger and better man.

[Idaho]

Yeah, with green baby doodoo on your spectacles and two inch bags under your eyes for lack of sleep, you see things very, but very differently. Don't worry, you'll come out a stronger and better man.

I never said you would be stronger or better. I just said you see things differently. Don't get touchy.

[KukriKhan]

Tin Cow got the feedback he sought, so maybe we can move the conversation on: over here (US) featured on TV is the Duggar family, who have just announced the wife's (age 42) 19th pregnancy.

Contrary to the usual "What are they, Catholic or Mormon?" question, it turns out that they are part of a sect or movement among conservative christians known as Quiverfull, which eschews any type of birth control or family planning, taking literally TC's thread title "Go forth and multiply" as a commandment from God - and children are a blessing, not a burden.

These folks see child-bearing as a moral obligation.

Q: Do you think there is any moral obligation, or civic duty to have children?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Q: Do you think there is any moral obligation, or civic duty to have children?

Well, there's definitely something. Otherwise we'd all die out.

[Craterus]

Well, there's definitely something. Otherwise we'd all die out.

Hardly. There's absolutely no chance of us dying out.

Moral obligation or not, people are going to keep having children and the world population will keep booming.

Now if there were a moral obligation to not reproduce...

[Louis VI the Fat]

Q: Do you think there is any moral obligation, or civic duty to have children?

Well...

I'm starting to think there is one. As it is, the norm for educated Frenchmen is to die childless. University educated women will not have children. Half of them none whatsover, the other half overwhelmingly one child, a small minority two.
No government program manages to remedy that. I do think there is a price to pay for society for this. For three generations now, the brightest 10 to 20 percent genocides itself. This will have an impact.


I hate to be a social Darwinist, but I just can't help to wonder what it means in the long run for a society if the lowest educated twenty percent have 3,5 children per woman, and the highest twenty have 0,5.

TinCow and his wife are rather representative of a wider phenomenon. Both are university educated, and their choice is 'one or none at all' children. Can I bring up the Bell Curve in this thread?

[Vladimir]

Some time ago I watched a History channel program where they covered this phenomenon. It's quite normal. In a sense, it's advantageous for this to happen. It facilitates the process of social if not biological evolution.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well...

I'm starting to think there is one. As it is, the norm for educated Frenchmen is to die childless. University educated women will not have children. Half of them none whatsover, the other half overwhelmingly one child, a small minority two.
No government program manages to remedy that. I do think there is a price to pay for society for this. For three generations now, the brightest 10 to 20 percent genocides itself. This will have an impact.


I hate to be a social Darwinist, but I just can't help to wonder what it means in the long run for a society if the lowest educated twenty percent have 3,5 children per woman, and the highest twenty have 0,5.

TinCow and his wife are rather representative of a wider phenomenon. Both are university educated, and their choice is 'one or none at all' children. Can I bring up the Bell Curve in this thread?

The Norm, really? We have the same issue over here, but among my generation, or people slightly older, women have begun to eschew high-flying jobs in favour of having children earlier. I think this has to do with a number of women from the previous generation coming out and saying that "success" made them pretty miserable.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The Norm, really? We have the same issue over here, but among my generation, or people slightly older, women have begun to eschew high-flying jobs in favour of having children earlier. I think this has to do with a number of women from the previous generation coming out and saying that "success" made them pretty miserable.

French birthrates are actually soaring as of late too. It is not entirely clear what is owing to belated demographical trends (women going for their last chance), a swing back towards having children, succesful government stimuli, or the influence of minority groups.

We're predicted to take over Germany in population size in the not too distant future. Then we'll invade and they'll be sorry for all of it and

[Papewaio]

TinCow and his wife are rather representative of a wider phenomenon. Both are university educated, and their choice is 'one or none at all' children. Can I bring up the Bell Curve in this thread?

Of course you can bring up the Bell Curve since we are talking about ringing Bells after all. 'Ring my bell, ring my bell.'

Not impressed by the fact that selfishness seems to be the primary motivation for not having children. I don't care how successful you are in life, your genetic legacy is the only one that endures. No matter how much of a "winner" you are in life you loose it all when you die.

To be or not to be is not a legacy of a great writer, Laws only exist whilst the maker lives?

No, we leave more then our genetic legacy there are our memes. Nor do all have to breed for the next generation to exist and excel. Ants far outweigh us as do other limited breeders. Not everyone needs to breed.

Our moral drive should not be to have a next generation, but to look after it.

[Xiahou]

For three generations now, the brightest 10 to 20 percent genocides itself. This will have an impact.


I hate to be a social Darwinist, but I just can't help to wonder what it means in the long run for a society if the lowest educated twenty percent have 3,5 children per woman, and the highest twenty have 0,5.

TinCow and his wife are rather representative of a wider phenomenon. Both are university educated, and their choice is 'one or none at all' children. Can I bring up the Bell Curve in this thread?

Did you ever watch Idiocracy*? It takes a humorous approach to the phenomenon. A good movie, btw.

*Language warning on the video clip.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Did you ever watch Idiocracy*? It takes a humorous approach to the phenomenon. A good movie, btw.

*Language warning on the video clip.

I had never heard of the movie before. I just read up on it on Wiki. It's already the greatest movie I've never seen!

It hits the mark perfectly. Such a good portrait of my dystopian nightmares! What's funny, is that Fox buried the movie, because of the movie's (accurate, methinks) portrayal of Fox in the dumbing down of America.

I'm so going to rent it on DVD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy

I have 19 pairs of aunts and uncles, 56 cousins, and 6 (including myself) siblings.

Yet I don't think I'll ever have children. I can't see myself giving a child what it would need to be succesful. I just can't emotionally attach myself that way.

Lemme guess: you are easily one of the brightest and highest educated in your family?


Edit: I thought that its religiosity made America more resitant to the phenomenon?