The sack of Carthage! (didn't quite go to plan!)

**kneecaps** · 08-31-2009, 23:59

Hi All!,
Really enjoying EB. Some questions about attacking Carthage.

I have a mixed bag of 800 troops including 2x Phalangiti, all troops ranging from green to vets. General only one command star.

The Carthaginian are led by a super general beginning with X (don't remember his name). They have around 300 troops, ALL elite including one unit of Phalangiti.

I won the battle and captured Carthage but they killed nearly 600 of my troops to the 300 of theirs I killed. Toward the end I was throwing in archers to fight hand to hand just to try and break them.

The elite Phalangiti unit was VERY VERY hard to kill...pinned him to the front and sides and charged the rear with cavalry many times.

They were carving my units apart despite being surrounded. Is this type of meat grinder just how difficult battles can be when fighting elite troops led by legendary generals?

Also my own Phalangiti seemed terribly ineffective, they were wiped out without actually inflicting many kills...am I using them wrong?

**Kevin** · 09-01-2009, 00:01

You're playing on Hard, aren't you?

**Julius Augustus** · 09-01-2009, 00:09

Let me guess, you were fighting Xantippos? He has spartan hoplite bodyguards. He can be really tough.
Also, let me guess, you are playing on hard battle difficulty?
Finally, was the Carthaginian elite phalanx was on the town square? In that case, they are nearly impossible to kill. If you have weak, low level phalangitai, they will get chewed apart by elites. Especially if you are playing on hard. You are probably not doing anything wrong.

**kneecaps** · 09-01-2009, 00:22

Correct on all counts. The Phalangiti on the square were REALLY hard to kill and carved my troops up like cheese!

Xantippos bodyguard unit were surrounded by 2 units of Hastati and 1 Principes with cavalry charging in , took maybe 10 to 15 minutes to kill and they managed to route some Hastati.

Thanks for the pointers, I was sweating toward the end!

Yes playing on hard battles.

**DaciaJC** · 09-01-2009, 00:37

Hard or Very Hard battle difficulty gives the AI a boost in morale and defense, if not more. If the enemy phalanxes were fighting in the town square, they would never break. A general with many command stars will give increase his soldier's fighting abilities (morale + 1 point attack/defense per star, if I recall correctly).

**Scud** · 09-01-2009, 00:44

Plus, as I recall the EB team only balanced the game to be played on Medium battle difficulty, meaning all the AI bonuses on Hard and Very Hard makes the game go a little strange.

**Molinaargh** · 09-01-2009, 01:16

Originally Posted by Scud

Plus, as I recall the EB team only balanced the game to be played on Medium battle difficulty, meaning all the AI bonuses on Hard and Very Hard makes the game go a little strange.

In my experience (a VH/VH victory by 130 BC) it just makes it hard, as the name suggests.

**Julius Augustus** · 09-01-2009, 00:44

As a hint on how to beat elite African phalanxes is to pin them with one unit from the front while smashing them with multiple pila volleys from the rear.
Also, don't play on hard difficulty in future campaigns if you want battles of not insane difficulty.

**Kevin** · 09-01-2009, 01:06

How come Xantippos gets Spartan bodyguards?

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · 09-01-2009, 01:10

Xantippos was a Spartan mercenary hired by Carthage to defend Africa against Rome towards the end of the first Punic War. He would not have used Carthaginian troops as his elite bodyguard but instead his Greek companions who would have been, Spartans.

**athanaric** · 09-01-2009, 01:07

The key to winning siege battles like this one is

a) bring enough missiles, preferably javelins (since arrows are only moderately effective vs. armoured troops) and

b) patience.

Try to surround the whole town square with missile or precursor units with fire at will turned off (so as not to provoke the enemy to charge from the town square). If you've completed the maneuvre, you just need to micro manage the missiles to ensure they always hit the enemy in the back.
The top priorty missile target should be Phalangites. Spartan BGs can be cut down with AP melee weapons, if need be. Seeing as native Roman untis rarely have AP melee weapons (and you need those pila to impale the Elite Pikemen), try to hire Numidian archers, Germanic clubmen, Illyrian Levies or some Iberian troops to attack the Spartans (or Sacred Band, should they be present) from behind (while pinning them with spearmen or Roman infantry). Alternatively you can just use the expensive but awesome Extraordinarii.

How come Xantippos gets Spartan bodyguards?

He's a scripted Spartan who helps the Carthaginians against Rome.