Language ban in Slovakia

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Slovakia pass an act banning any language but Slovakian in public places and restricting the use of minority languages elsewhere too. Practically it's the Hungarians with their 10% population who will be effected most severely, and Gypsies. Those are details in my POV and any ban against any language I cannot regard human-like.

Even Turkey is getting ahead of this Incompatible language steadily. It is really hard for me to restrain myself within the rules and find suitable words for this kind of zombie fascism.

One article here, more can be looked up.
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[Beskar]

A huge hit for the tourism industry.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

What about tourists? Slovaks communicating with tourists? Am I missing something, or did they really not think this through?

[Tratorix]

What about tourists? Slovaks communicating with tourists? Am I missing something, or did they really not think this through?

A huge hit for the tourism industry.

I'm keeping a running tally of people who have posted in this thread who have apparently thought about this more than the Slovakian government.

[Husar]

And what about ambassadors?
Will Obama have to learn Slovakian not to get arrested when he visits?
Will they arrest the Pope for speaking latin?

This sounds like an amusing display of nonsense and stupidity.

[Kadagar_AV]

"Only Slovak can now be used in public offices, and in institutions like schools and hospitals."

Article says NOTHING about forcing slovakians to speak slovakian to tourists. I think English will still be fine.



Why are people so opposed? The rule was implemented to cut down government costs... They no longer will need translators when immigrants visits hospitals, they dont have to translate the government webpage to X different languages, They dont need translators on the hospitals payroll 8hospital can instead focus on spending money on curing people)...

As an added bonus it gives immigrants and minority groups a kick in the behind to learn slovakian, thus making their transition to well-working citizens so much easier. This law in general will probably help more than it hurts.

So yes, I think the slovakian government thought about it, more than people in this thread.

[Papewaio]

More interested to see if this passes muster within the EU... must come under human rights/racism.

Also it is a great way to lose tourism as mentioned.

And what happens when a tourist a) Has a wallet stolen or goes to hospital?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

"Only Slovak can now be used in public offices, and in institutions like schools and hospitals."

Article says NOTHING about forcing slovakians to speak slovakian to tourists. I think English will still be fine.



Why are people so opposed? The rule was implemented to cut down government costs... They no longer will need translators when immigrants visits hospitals, they dont have to translate the government webpage to X different languages, They dont need translators on the hospitals payroll 8hospital can instead focus on spending money on curing people)...

As an added bonus it gives immigrants and minority groups a kick in the behind to learn slovakian, thus making their transition to well-working citizens so much easier. This law in general will probably help more than it hurts.

That sounds good (though Hungarian really should have been given a regional allowance at least, if it doesn't have one).

So yes, I think the slovakian government thought about it, more than people in this thread.

The way the OP was worded says that only Slovakian could be used in all public places. Most of us took that to mean outside of the home, I suppose.

And what happens when a tourist a) Has a wallet stolen

It's the East, you're probably not getting it back.

[Furunculus]

A huge hit for the tourism industry.

exactly what i thought.

on a similar note:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ge...-in-doncaster/

You do not have to go all the way in supporting the English Democrats party, whose silly proposal for an English parliament would add another superfluous layer to already excessive government, to raise a glass to Peter Davies, the party’s elected Mayor of Doncaster. Davies, the father of Tory MP Philip Davies, is one of just 11 directly elected mayors and he is enjoying increasing media exposure because of his outrageous agenda which, against all the tenets of consensual British politics, consists of doing what the public wants.

In his first week in office he cut his own salary from £73,000 to £30,000, which is putting one’s money where one’s mouth is. He also scrapped the mayoral limousine. He is ending Doncaster’s twinning with five towns around the world, an arrangement which he describes as “just for people to fly off and have a binge at the council’s expense”. He intends now to reduce (that’s right, reduce) council tax by 3 per cent this year.

The “diversity” portfolio has been abolished from the council’s cabinet. From next year no more funding will be given to the town’s “Gay Pride” event, on the grounds that people do not need to parade their sexuality, whatever it may be, at taxpayers’ expense. Black History Month, International Women’s Day and the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender History Month are similarly destined to become history.

Council funding of translation services for immigrants has been scrapped because he believes incomers should take the trouble to learn English. Officials have been ordered to abandon bureaucratic gobbledegook language. Davies is saving the taxpayers £80,000 by disaffiliating from the pointless Local Government Association and the Local Government Information Unit. He aims to abolish all non-jobs on the council, as epitomised by “community cohesion officers”. He is taking advice from the Taxpayers’ Alliance and the Campaign Against Political Correctness.

Davies’s views are calculated to put Harriet Harridan into intensive care for six months. He disregards all “green claptrap”, is creating more parking spaces to encourage traffic in the town for the benefit of business (”I’m not green and I’m not conned by global warming”). He has asked the Electoral Commission to reduce the number of Doncaster’s councillors from 63 to 21 (”If Pittsburgh can manage with nine councillors, why do we need 63?”).

You may be feeling disorientated, overcome by a surreal sensation, on hearing such extraordinary, unprecedented views. They are the almost forgotten, forcibly extinguished voice of sanity which most people had thought forever excised from British politics. These policies are common sense, which is something we have not experienced in any council chamber, still less the House of Commons, in decades. The establishment is moving heaven and earth to discredit and obstruct Davies. He is that ultimate embarrassment: the boy who reveals that the Emperor has no clothes.

If it is good enough for Doncaster, it is good enough for Britain. Our effete, corrupt, politically correct politicians must be compelled to follow suit. Once upon a time, such policies would have been axiomatic in the Tory Party. In the Cameron-occupied Conservative Party of today they are regarded as anathema. There has to be an inflexible public will to enforce the country’s wishes on the political class under pain of ejection from public life. That is the sole agenda for the next general election. The mainstream parties, as currently constituted, are no longer electable.

i like the guy already.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

on a similar note:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ge...-in-doncaster/


i like the guy already.

I feel like Christmas has come early.

[HoreTore]

What absolute rubbish.

[Papewaio]

It's the East, you're probably not getting it back.

Yeah, but you wouldn't expect to be arrested for trying to explain what happened in another language in a public office.

Also what happens to all the language teachers at schools?

[Kadagar_AV]

Yeah, but you wouldn't expect to be arrested for trying to explain what happened in another language in a public office.

Also what happens to all the language teachers at schools?

*sigh*

A) This has nothing to do with tourists. You will be fine speaking english or german at the police station...

B) language teachers at school will still have their job. They will still etach german and english just like before.

[Ironside]

Anybody knows what

"Anyone found to be regularly misusing the Slovak language in public office now faces a fine of up to $7,000 (£4,300), the equivalent of nearly a year's average pay in Slovakia, reports say"

means?

Because I can understand if you only can be expected to be served in Slovakian, but if you get your doctor fined because he speaks Hungarian with you, because you're much better at Hungarian than Slovakian, then it starts to sound odd.

[Andres]

Slovakia signed and ratified the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities.

As far as I know, they didn't make any reservations to this convention.

The convention itself doesn't define the term "national minority", but resolution 1201 does:

“For the purposes of this Convention, the expression ‘‘national minority'' refers to a group of persons in a state who:
a. reside on the territory of that state and are citizens thereof;
b. maintain longstanding, firm and lasting ties with that state;
c. display distinctive ethnic, cultural, religious or linguistic characteristics;
d. are sufficiently representative, although smaller in number than the rest of the population of that state or of a region of that state;
e. are motivated by a concern to preserve together that which constitutes their common identity, including their culture, their traditions, their religion or their language.”

So yes, the Hungarians are a minority that is protected by said convention.

Article 10, paragraph 2 & 3 of the convention:

2. In areas inhabited by persons belonging to national minorities traditionally or in substantial numbers, if those persons so request and where such a request corresponds to a real need, the Parties shall endeavour to ensure, as far as possible, the conditions which would make it possible to use the minority language in relations between those persons and the administrative authorities.
3. The Parties undertake to guarantee the right of every person belonging to a national minority to be informed promptly, in a language which he or she understands, of the reasons for his or her arrest, and of the nature and cause of any accusation against him or her, and to defend himself or herself in this language, if necessary with the free assistance of an interpreter.

Slovakia has also signed and ratified the European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages.

Definition of minority languages in the charter:

Article 1 – Definitions
For the purposes of this Charter:
a “regional or minority languages” means languages that are:
i traditionally used within a given territory of a State by nationals of that State who form a group numerically smaller than the rest of the State's population; and
ii different from the official language(s) of that State; it does not include either dialects of the official language(s) of the State or the languages of migrants;

Relevant articles:

Article 9 – Judicial authorities
1 The Parties undertake, in respect of those judicial districts in which the number of residents using the regional or minority languages justifies the measures specified below, according to the situation of each of these languages and on condition that the use of the facilities afforded by the present paragraph is not considered by the judge to hamper the proper administration of justice:

a in criminal proceedings:

i to provide that the courts, at the request of one of the parties, shall conduct the
proceedings in the regional or minority languages; and/or
ii to guarantee the accused the right to use his/her regional or minority language; and/or
iii to provide that requests and evidence, whether written or oral, shall not be considered inadmissible solely because they are formulated in a regional or minority language; and/or
iv to produce, on request, documents connected with legal proceedings in the relevant regional or minority language, if necessary by the use of interpreters and translations involving no extra expense for the persons concerned;
b in civil proceedings:
i to provide that the courts, at the request of one of the parties, shall conduct the proceedings in the regional or minority languages; and/or
ii to allow, whenever a litigant has to appear in person before a court, that he or she may use his or her regional or minority language without thereby incurring additional expense; and/or
iii to allow documents and evidence to be produced in the regional or minority languages, if necessary by the use of interpreters and translations;
c in proceedings before courts concerning administrative matters:
i to provide that the courts, at the request of one of the parties, shall conduct the proceedings in the regional or minority languages; and/or
ii to allow, whenever a litigant has to appear in person before a court, that he or she may use his or her regional or minority language without thereby incurring additional expense; and/or
iii to allow documents and evidence to be produced in the regional or minority languages, if necessary by the use of interpreters and translations;

d to take steps to ensure that the application of sub-paragraphs i and iii of paragraphs b and c
above and any necessary use of interpreters and translations does not involve extra expense for
the persons concerned.
2 The Parties undertake:

a not to deny the validity of legal documents drawn up within the State solely because they
are drafted in a regional or minority language; or
b not to deny the validity, as between the parties, of legal documents drawn up within the country solely because they are drafted in a regional or minority language, and to provide that they can be invoked against interested third parties who are not users of these languages on condition that the contents of the document are made known to them by the person(s) who invoke(s) it; or
c not to deny the validity, as between the parties, of legal documents drawn up within the country solely because they are drafted in a regional or minority language.
3 The Parties undertake to make available in the regional or minority languages the most
important national statutory texts and those relating particularly to users of these languages,
unless they are otherwise provided.

Article 10 – Administrative authorities and public services
1 Within the administrative districts of the State in which the number of residents who are users of regional or minority languages justifies the measures specified below and according to the situation of each language, the Parties undertake, as far as this is reasonably possible:
a i to ensure that the administrative authorities use the regional or minority languages; or
ii to ensure that such of their officers as are in contact with the public use the regional or minority languages in their relations with persons applying to them in these languages; or
iii to ensure that users of regional or minority languages may submit oral or written applications and receive a reply in these languages; or
iv to ensure that users of regional or minority languages may submit oral or written applications in these languages; or
v to ensure that users of regional or minority languages may validly submit a document in these languages;
b to make available widely used administrative texts and forms for the population in the regional or minority languages or in bilingual versions;
c to allow the administrative authorities to draft documents in a regional or minority language.

2 In respect of the local and regional authorities on whose territory the number of residents
who are users of regional or minority languages is such as to justify the measures specified below,
the Parties undertake to allow and/or encourage:

a the use of regional or minority languages within the framework of the regional or local
authority;

b the possibility for users of regional or minority languages to submit oral or written
applications in these languages;
c the publication by regional authorities of their official documents also in the relevant regional or minority languages;
d the publication by local authorities of their official documents also in the relevant regional or minority languages;
e the use by regional authorities of regional or minority languages in debates in their assemblies, without excluding, however, the use of the official language(s) of the State;

f the use by local authorities of regional or minority languages in debates in their assemblies,
without excluding, however, the use of the official language(s) of the State;

g the use or adoption, if necessary in conjunction with the name in the official language(s), of
traditional and correct forms of place-names in regional or minority languages.
3 With regard to public services provided by the administrative authorities or other persons acting on their behalf, the Parties undertake, within the territory in which regional or minority languages are used, in accordance with the situation of each language and as far as this is reasonably possible:
a to ensure that the regional or minority languages are used in the provision of the service; or
b to allow users of regional or minority languages to submit a request and receive a reply in
these languages; or
c to allow users of regional or minority languages to submit a request in these languages.

4 With a view to putting into effect those provisions of paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 accepted by
them, the Parties undertake to take one or more of the following measures:
a translation or interpretation as may be required;
b recruitment and, where necessary, training of the officials and other public service employees required;
c compliance as far as possible with requests from public service employees having a knowledge of a regional or minority language to be appointed in the territory in which that language is used.
5 The Parties undertake to allow the use or adoption of family names in the regional or minority languages, at the request of those concerned.

[Idaho]

exactly what i thought.

on a similar note:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/ge...-in-doncaster/


i like the guy already.

While I'm sure many of the services and funding being cut are indeed superfluous - the proof of the pudding will be in many year's time.

[Furunculus]

agreed, but it's a worthy experiment if you, like me, believe that government spending absorbing more than 40% of GDP is downright immoral.

[Jolt]

This is clearly a discriminatory policy with the intention of attempting to assimilate the Hungarian minority to the Slovak culture/language. This measure, coupled with the denial of entry of the Hungarian president into Slovakia, is an extremely worrying development of discrimination which is against everything which the European Union stands for. (Diversity and non-discrimination)

I suppose using the same modus operandi of Slovakia, we in Portugal will henceforth prevent the Spanish Kings from entrying Portugal, likewise Austria preventing the German leaders from visiting the country and so on. Can you imagine that?

[Adrian II]

Practically it's the Hungarians with their 10% population who will be effected most severely, and Gypsies.

Exactly.

Cost-cutting my foot, this is done to harass minorities. It's just an excuse to kick Gypsies out of hospitals, convict Hungarians in court without granting them proper representation and other fascist nonsense. It's the 1930's time-warp playing tricks with a Balkan nation again.

As for Davies, I'm an instant fan. Can we please, plz, pl0x borrow that man!

[Furunculus]

agreed on both points.

slovakia's action seem merely divisive, but Davies is an experiment that should be supported, and if successful, emulated.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Fortunately, us non-native speakers have sign language.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Meneldil]

Typical nation-building experiment. Any country in the world has done it at some point, and though it's clearly aimed at minorities and is discriminating, I don't really get the fuss. Trying to enforce the national language over minorities doesn't sound *that* wrong to me.

As multicultural states have proved repeatedly to be huge failures, I certainly can understand why Slovakia tries to enforce a single culture. That's going to be rough for some people, but heh, that's how things go.

And come on, they're not banning foreign languages altogether, they're banning foreign languages from administrations and such.

[Idaho]

Typical nation-building experiment. Any country in the world has done it at some point, and though it's clearly aimed at minorities and is discriminating, I don't really get the fuss. Trying to enforce the national language over minorities doesn't sound *that* wrong to me.

As multicultural states have proved repeatedly to be huge failures, I certainly can understand why Slovakia tries to enforce a single culture. That's going to be rough for some people, but heh, that's how things go.

And come on, they're not banning foreign languages altogether, they're banning foreign languages from administrations and such.

It wouldn't sound bad to a frenchman! Your nation was built on destroying minority languages and doggedly defending modern french. At the time of the revolution only 10% of french people spoke french I believe.

[Sarmatian]

I think this is incorrectly represented by BBC. Slovakia can't pass a law that isn't in agreement with EU standards.

I'd also go as far as to say that Hungarians probably still have a right to use their language regionally, but if they move to Bratislava or whatever other region, they have to use Slovakian for official purposes. It doesn't apply to tourists and foreigners either.

This is really without reading anything on the issue, just a gut feeling that someone didn't do his homework properly before writing an article

This is clearly a discriminatory policy with the intention of attempting to assimilate the Hungarian minority to the Slovak culture/language. This measure, coupled with the denial of entry of the Hungarian president into Slovakia, is an extremely worrying development of discrimination which is against everything which the European Union stands for. (Diversity and non-discrimination)

Actually, that Hungarian president is well known for his overly nationalistic public statements where he talks about incorporating into Hungary all lands that were once part of the Kingdom of Hungary and similar rubbish. He also tends to arrange official visits to more radically inclined Hungarian nationalistic parties in other countries without agreement with the government or the president of the country in question.

He was barred from Serbia and one other country, IIRC, for the exact same reason. That's a terrible breach of all diplomatic protocols...

with a Balkan nation again.

There should be a rule about a minimum geographical knowledge before traditional Balkan Bashing begins. Neither Hungary nor Slovakia are in the Balkans with even 0,01% of their territory.

[Mithrandir]

What about the tourists?

[Strike For The South]

You dont win over minorities by banning there language. You win over minorities by expousing there kids to Hannah Montana, the Dallas Cowboys, and flour tortillias.

[HoreTore]

Typical nation-building experiment. Any country in the world has done it at some point, and though it's clearly aimed at minorities and is discriminating, I don't really get the fuss. Trying to enforce the national language over minorities doesn't sound *that* wrong to me.

As multicultural states have proved repeatedly to be huge failures, I certainly can understand why Slovakia tries to enforce a single culture. That's going to be rough for some people, but heh, that's how things go.

And come on, they're not banning foreign languages altogether, they're banning foreign languages from administrations and such.

Yes, we all know that the US is a failed state, and that they are a failed state because of all those italian, french and spanish speakers....

[Meneldil]

The US built itself by enforcing the WASP ideal over the various newcomers.

Integrating the italian immigrants was a pain, nobody speaks french anymore except in some parts of the Maine and Louisiana and I doubt anyone would say that latinos' integration into the national community is a huge success so far.

I'd suggest you read how french as a language was wipped off the face of the British colonies/the newborn US. It wasn't 'hey dude, I know you have your own language, but you know speaking english would be cool too', but more among the lines of 'French is banned, period.' I'm not even going into the whole irish situation, the japanese and chinese cases and so on.

Of course, things are different now, because banning spanish or openly discriminating the latinos would be foolish, but if you think the US were built as a multicultural state, you're fooling yourself.

[Idaho]

There should be a rule about a minimum geographical knowledge before traditional Balkan Bashing begins.

Surely the rule is that you have to be another Balkan state/prinicpality/ethnic group before bashing your fellow Balkan?

[Kadagar_AV]

What about the tourists?

What about reading the thread before responding?

I know I already answered this twice, and so have others.

*they just dont make moderators like they used to*