Changing unit stats

[Paltmull]

I've found that the Indian longbowmen, despite their description, sort of suck. Playing as Baktria, there is absolutely no point in recruiting them, since Persian archers are much better and have a much wider AOR.

Therefore, I want to increase the range, ammo and attack of the longbowmen. How do you do that?

No offence, EB team. I love EB. It's practically the only game i play (I say "game, not "mod". Can't even be compared to vanilla), and there is probably some reason for the stats of the longbowmen being the way they are. But I want to change them anyway. :)

[DaciaJC]

They carry high-lethality AP swords, if I recall correctly.

But you basically just want to edit the export_descr_unit.txt file. If you're using the Trivial Script, you want to edit the edu in the "sp game edu backup" folder.

;126
type             eastern missile indian longbowmen
dictionary       eastern_missile_indian_longbowmen      ; Indian Longbowmen
category         infantry
class            missile
voice_type       General_1
soldier          eastern_missile_indianlongbowmen, 40, 0, 0.9
mount_effect     horse -2, elephant +3, chariot +4
attributes       sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, very_hardy
formation        1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 5, square
stat_health      1, 1
stat_pri         5, 2, arrow, 170, 16, missile, archery, piercing, none, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr    no
stat_sec         8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.26
stat_sec_attr    ap
stat_pri_armour  2, 11, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        0
stat_ground      0, 0, 2, -2
stat_mental      10, normal, trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        1, 1130, 283, 30, 40, 1130
ownership        romans_brutii, slave, armenia, pontus, romans_julii, numidia, macedon, thrace, egypt, carthage, romans_scipii, parthia, dacia, germans, spain, seleucid, saba, greek_cities, gauls, britons, scythia

The numbers in red are the values you will want to edit.

[Paltmull]

AP swords... Didn't think of that. I'll just increase the range then. Thanks :)

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Shouldn't they technically have the longest range, since they are longbow-men?

Also, I wonder if they shouldn't have the ap attribute. Or am I wrong in comparing them to medieval English longbowmen just because it's longbow?

[Paltmull]

Ok, this is weird. I edit the numbers, using notepad, and save the changes. But as soon as I start EB the changes are reset.

EDIT: Nevermind. Found out how to fix it.

[athanaric]

These guys are basically Drapanai with a weaker charge and morale, but a missile attack. So yeah, giving them more range and armour is probably gonna turn them into the most dangerous and overpowered unit in the game...

Shouldn't they technically have the longest range, since they are longbow-men?

As far as I understand the unit description, their longbows are not nearly as sophisticated as the composite bows of the Middle East and the steppes. Hardly more than big self bows made of cane. It's a matter of material and mechanics.

And they aren't really bad, seeing as their range and attack are at least equal to those of the Numidian archers, who are generally viewed as being useful.

[Paltmull]

As far as I understand the unit description, their longbows are not nearly as sophisticated as the composite bows of the Middle East and the steppes. Hardly more than big self bows made of cane. It's a matter of material and mechanics.

The description does say that the longbows "allow them to launch arrows at a tremendous range, making their users essentially immune to enemy horse archers and projectiles."

[A Very Super Market]

I think the AP swords make them worthwhile. Think of them as the ultimate wall-fighters. Missile attack + AP will make short work of most attackers.

English longbowmen weren't armour busters anyways. The only archer unit I would even consider giving an AP attribute for their missiles would be the Caucasians, because of their javelin bows...

[athanaric]

The description does say that the longbows "allow them to launch arrows at a tremendous range, making their users essentially immune to enemy horse archers and projectiles."

Well maybe then the description will be fixed in EB II, because usually the stats are more up to date than the unit description (in those rare cases where there is a disparity).

[WinsingtonIII]

And they aren't really bad, seeing as their range and attack are at least equal to those of the Numidian archers, who are generally viewed as being useful.

They aren't bad, but I think the Numidians are viewed as more useful simply because they are found in the western half of the map. Archers in the west generally range from bad to terrible, so the Numidians really stand out because they're actually decent. However, in the east, decent archers don't cut it. When you're going up against Subeshis, Caucasians, Syrians, Persians, Heavy Persians, Saka foot archers, and Mardians, you need good archers of your own, and you can provide them because there is so much variety of good archers in the east (they're usually relatively low-level regionals too so everyone can get them). The Indian longbowmen do have the melee advantage over most archers, but in an archer duel, they will probably lose to any of the above archers. That and the fact that they have a limited AOR at the edge of the map while you can get Persian archers anywhere from Mesopotamia to Baktria makes me feel like they aren't worth it. That's just my take on it though.

[Julius Augustus]

English longbowmen weren't armour busters anyways. The only archer unit I would even consider giving an AP attribute for their missiles would be the Caucasians, because of their javelin bows...

Javelin bows? What are they? They sound deadly.

[DaciaJC]

Xenophon was unlucky enough to find himself at the wrong end of worrying tactics of such a people, the Karduchi, who may have been the ancestors of the modern day Kurds, as he and his force battled through the Caucasus highlands to the southern shore of the Black Sea. Xenophon mentions that the bow the Karduchi used was the three cubits long, whilst the arrow was two cubits itself. Xenophon further reports that "When discharging the arrow, they draw the string by getting a purchase with the left foot planted forward on the lower end of the bow. The arrows pierced through shield and cuirass, and the Hellenes, when they got hold of them, used them as javelins, fitting them to their thongs."

~ EB Description

[seienchin]

Who believes what greecian or roman writers wrote about super ultra strong enemies? I do not^^.
And since there were no bodkin arrows in that time, I doubt that any bow was strong enough to pierce through metal armour or metal shields.

[Apázlinemjó]

Xenophon was very old when he wrote the Anabasis, so I'm not entirely sure that we can trust his memories about the Karduchi.

[Stycks]

If i remember correctly, it says in the description that their longbows were made from bamboo and from what i've seen with bamboo (and tried a few times) they arent as good as woods such as yew or ash or composite materials in making bows.

I think that the reason they had a long bamboo bow was that because bamboo wasn't as great as other bow making woods and so a bamboo long bow would prob. (IMO) have around the same strength (and therefore stats) as a regularly sized wooden bow in the west.

That would justify its lack of range and lack of stopping power when one thinks of a longbow.

*and BTW, the longbow worked because it killed the horses of the knights, and since their armor was so heavy, it was quite hard to close in that bit of distance while under constant fire and if they did manage to get close enough on foot, they would be substantially more exhausted than the archers who can then dispatch them with nice armor piercing stilettos.

^^ (sounds familiarly similar to them indian archers?)

[Rabhadh]

Ok, this is weird. I edit the numbers, using notepad, and save the changes. But as soon as I start EB the changes are reset.

EDIT: Nevermind. Found out how to fix it.

So how did you do it?

[DaciaJC]

Try editing the EDU in the "sp game edu backup" folder instead of the one in the "Data" folder.

[Paltmull]

So how did you do it?

Appearently, the trivial script overwrites export_descr_unit by copying the document located in "mp game edu backup" or "sp game edu backup" (in rome - total war/EB) everytime you start the game. The solution was to change the unit stats in export_descr_unit in both those folders.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

It's absolutely sufficient to change the EDU located in sp game edu backup, it will overwrite the one in your data folder. Well if you want to do mp, than you should alter the respective on in mp game edu backup.

[Rabhadh]

It doesn't change the stats in the description though? Thats a different file to edit right?

[Mediolanicus]

It doesn't change the stats in the description though? Thats a different file to edit right?

The description itself is a different file.

The stats that do show up are directly from the EDU, so changing the EDU also changes the stats shown ingame.