Payai Dunai

[Azathoth]

What is the etymology of Payai Dunai (Saka Foot Archers)?

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I was in Hungary a short time ago and realized that Duna was Hungarian for Danube (Dunai is Russian, Donau is German, etc.).

[Ibrahim]

What is the etymology of Payai Dunai (Saka Foot Archers)?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I was in Hungary a short time ago and realized that Duna was Hungarian for Danube (Dunai is Russian, Donau is German, etc.).

its most likely a coincidence that it matches the name of the danube in Hungarian.

besides, the saka were no where near the Danube in 272, were they?

its more likely to be sakan or some similar for "foot archer", or a similar term. however, I think an EB member is more fit to answer that question.

[mountaingoat]

maybe they migrated from the danube ? =P

someone should post the info

[Hax]

its most likely a coincidence that it matches the name of the danube in Hungarian.

Don't forget where the Hungarians (Magyar) originally came from.

[HunGeneral]

That's interresting. I never thought on that similarity before.

I checked up on the origin of the name of the Duna. - What I could find says that it stemms from the ancient Indo-European word "dānu" (meaning river or stream). The Ossetian word "Don" (water, river) is the most similar to it in a modern day language.

The name given to it by the romans "Ister" only meant the lower part of the river. This name is suspected to have its origins in ancient greek, but there are also claimes that it has celtic roots.

So I suspect the word "dunai" either means foot archer or something like that, but I wonder what an EB team member could say on the matter.

[Andronikos]

I checked up on the origin of the name of the Duna. - What I could find says that it stemms from the ancient Indo-European word "dānu" (meaning river or stream). The Ossetian word "Don" (water, river) is the most similar to it in a modern day language.

The name given to it by the romans "Ister" only meant the lower part of the river. This name is suspected to have its origins in ancient greek, but there are also claimes that it has celtic roots.

Wikipedia features some of these theories as well as names for Danube in a lot of languages. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danube


Many girls like art and if you want to pick some cultured girl this could be a way as art belongs to history.
There is always a way how to tell something in appealing way, like here (first row)

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[The Persian Cataphract]

Payai Dunai was derived from an entry in an obscure Saka-Khotanese dictionary; Payai is a well-attested cognate of proto-Indo-European Pa- which means foot or pertains to feet or standing. It could ultimately be compared to Old Persian Payahdag and Middle Persian Paygan which mean infantry.

There is no lingual connection to the word for Danube or Dnieper (Danu Apara; a completely separated root) in Magyar, besides it being a loanword from previous Indo-European examples.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Very interesting, thanks for sharing this information and thus boosting the readers' knowledge.

~Fluvius

[Aemilius Paulus]

What is not a coincidence, however, is that Mori Gaesum is Slavic-sounding, as mori is "sea" in both Russian and Proto-Slavic. Same for the Volcae tribe. Volcae means "wolves" in Russian, and is also similar to the Proto-German version. There are numerous other examples of such similarities with Slavic tongues as well.

[Azathoth]

So the "Mori" in Mori Gaesum means "sea"? Sea spears?

[DaciaJC]

So the "Mori" in Mori Gaesum means "sea"? Sea spears?

Sea of spears.

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Payai Dunai was derived from an entry in an obscure Saka-Khotanese dictionary; Payai is a well-attested cognate of proto-Indo-European Pa- which means foot or pertains to feet or standing. It could ultimately be compared to Old Persian Payahdag and Middle Persian Paygan which mean infantry.

There is no lingual connection to the word for Danube or Dnieper (Danu Apara; a completely separated root) in Magyar, besides it being a loanword from previous Indo-European examples.

And then I can wonder at how much EB incorporates the most obscure, unseen and unknown knowledge of the world. I've never seen a Khotanese dictionary in my life, let alone knew it existed inside the IE branch, and I wondered where those Nomad names supposedly came all from given that our written record is null. Once more we have to thank the sheltered people who dedicate their lives to such intricate and unspoken things which neverteless become necessary once in a while, even if just for a game.

[The Persian Cataphract]

And then I can wonder at how much EB incorporates the most obscure, unseen and unknown knowledge of the world. I've never seen a Khotanese dictionary in my life, let alone knew it existed inside the IE branch, and I wondered where those Nomad names supposedly came all from given that our written record is null. Once more we have to thank the sheltered people who dedicate their lives to such intricate and unspoken things which neverteless become necessary once in a while, even if just for a game.

An important biography on Harold Bailey

[Hax]

What I know of H.W. Bailey is that he did a lot of work on middle and old Persian, and I make extensive use of his work for Atropatene in AtB.

[The Persian Cataphract]

What I know of H.W. Bailey is that he did a lot of work on middle and old Persian, and I make extensive use of his work for Atropatene in AtB.

I believe this is an understatement of one of the modern era's greatest linguistic minds; his merits alone are easily comparable to that of H.S. Nyberg and D.N. MacKenzie, and as far as his understanding of historiography is concerned, he stands right there with Roman Ghirshman and R.N. Frye. In Zoroastrian studies, his works are extensively consulted, and contrast well to the more established writings of Mary Boyce.

In regards to the Indo-European languages and cultures of Central Asia, both J.P. Mallory and Janos Harmatta consulted the works of Bailey. In fact, I dare say that Bailey's work is very comparable to the research of William Tarn in regards to Greek culture in Central Asia. This speaks volumes of the influence of his scholarship, in several disciplines.

Here's some inside trivia: I had no clue that Bailey had actually written a compendium on the Dunhuang Manuscripts (From which the greatest portion of the material is derived from in the dictionary). Krusader did some investigating... And found a book by Bailey... With the most outrageous price-tag ever conceived for an otherwise such a thin book. And, this is actually quite an amusing story... But, I think Krusader resorted to actually writing down the key-phrases by pen-and-paper, in situ of the library.

An ordinary lay-person wouldn't even cast a glance upon such a piece of literature. Ask them to point out where Khotan is on a map, and understandably, they are clueless about it. But here in EB, we were actually contemplating to do terrible, disgusting and downrightly morally repulsive things just to acquire a few excerpts from that book.

What followed was a whimsical restructuring by yours truly; dictionaries of obscure extinct Indo-Iranian languages tend to be so optimized that they leave very little in the ways of grammar. But there you guys have it. A pretty damn good story to tell the ladies

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

I know, my paternal granddad had a degree on Iranian Studies by the University of Prague and knew Persian (having lived in Iran for two years before the Mossadegh debacle), but he has not left much on Sanskrit, Pehlevi or Khotanese... I think that would a very specialized field of Iranian history and studies, more than he had access to, or wished to have access to. Sadly most of his Persian books, typewriter et all have been donated over the years.

Which shows that I might be outclassed by a PhD, but I'll still beat an average Joe in an argument .