What makes a myth?

[Hax]

I was recently browsing some forums on religion, and there was thread comparing the many "myths" of creation. I noticed a huge difference when it came to the Babylonian tradition of Marduk creating man from clay and the blood of a slain God, and the Christian tradition of man being made by God.

For some reason, the Babylonian tradition was defined as a myth, but the typical Judeo-Christian tradition was not. Now, why would this be?

What makes a myth, and how do we define it, if we even can?

"myth ~ From Ancient Greek (muthos), “‘word, humour, companion, speech, account, rumour, fable’”). English since 1830."

Note the first translation, "word". Now if we take the Bible: "In the Beginning, there was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word was God".

Word, myth, fable, perhaps it all points to the same thing. However, I'm pretty sure that most Christians wouldn't exactly like you if you called the Bible a myth. We speak of the creation myth, but why don't we address the entire Bible as being mythical? Or the Torah or the Qu'ran for that matter?

My guess is that because of its historical "evidence" (which is much more obvious in the Qu'ran than in the Bible or the Torah, for that matter) we stop to look at what is said is mythical.

If we compare this opinion to that of a Christian living five hundred years ago, or random Christians somewhere in Alabama nowadays, they will not see the 6-day creation of the world as being a myth, or mythical in origin.

Take for example the Greek legend of the birth of Dionysus. He was born from the mortal woman Selene and was the son of Zeus. While Selene was pregnant, she doubted the divine origin of the child and demanded that Zeus showed him to her in all his divine power. Seeing this, she died and Zeus took the unborn baby from her stomach and sewed Dionysus in his own thigh.

I suppose that most people will regard this as, in the words of Tribeseman, bollox. For a Greek man 2,500 years ago this was reality.

So why do we take Jesus, say he turned water into wine, magically duplicated loaves of bread and fishes and raised a man from the dead. Just like Isis and Osiris. But for some reason, that's mythical.

To cut a long story short, where do we place myths? How you can rationally call one explanation a myth and another real. Feel free to debate.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I was recently browsing some forums on religion, and there was thread comparing the many "myths" of creation. I noticed a huge difference when it came to the Babylonian tradition of Marduk creating man from clay and the blood of a slain God, and the Christian tradition of man being made by God.

They're the same Myth, really. Or rather, they have the same root.

For some reason, the Babylonian tradition was defined as a myth, but the typical Judeo-Christian tradition was not. Now, why would this be?

Generally, people don't believe myths, and this was true of the Greeks and their own stories in later centuries.

What makes a myth, and how do we define it, if we even can?

"myth ~ From Ancient Greek (muthos), “‘word, humour, companion, speech, account, rumour, fable’”). English since 1830."

Note the first translation, "word". Now if we take the Bible: "In the Beginning, there was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word was God".

Word, myth, fable, perhaps it all points to the same thing. However, I'm pretty sure that most Christians wouldn't exactly like you if you called the Bible a myth. We speak of the creation myth, but why don't we address the entire Bible as being mythical? Or the Torah or the Qu'ran for that matter?

Well, you're dealing with a very bad translation. The word in John's Gospel is Logos, not Mythos.

Logos: source and fundamental order of the cosmos (Heraclitus)

It doesn't mean "word" so much as "meaning".

My guess is that because of its historical "evidence" (which is much more obvious in the Qu'ran than in the Bible or the Torah, for that matter) we stop to look at what is said is mythical.

If we compare this opinion to that of a Christian living five hundred years ago, or random Christians somewhere in Alabama nowadays, they will not see the 6-day creation of the world as being a myth, or mythical in origin.

Take for example the Greek legend of the birth of Dionysus. He was born from the mortal woman Selene and was the son of Zeus. While Selene was pregnant, she doubted the divine origin of the child and demanded that Zeus showed him to her in all his divine power. Seeing this, she died and Zeus took the unborn baby from her stomach and sewed Dionysus in his own thigh.

I suppose that most people will regard this as, in the words of Tribeseman, bollox. For a Greek man 2,500 years ago this was reality.

So why do we take Jesus, say he turned water into wine, magically duplicated loaves of bread and fishes and raised a man from the dead. Just like Isis and Osiris. But for some reason, that's mythical.

To cut a long story short, where do we place myths? How you can rationally call one explanation a myth and another real. Feel free to debate.

Well, that's a matter of perspective and opinion, nothing more.

[Ronin]

Overcoming death is always a crowd pleaser....

splash in some nifty miracles, some interesting good guys and bad guys and this puppy will write itself!

[Fragony]

Marduk was just the protector-god of the city of Babylon until he became the state god, the mythology surrounding him changes radically while christianity/jewism is much more stable. The believe in him is also gone, so the believe in other ancient gods, I also think the word mythical is just too easy to use, the mythical city of bla, the mythical god of bleh.

[Kadagar_AV]

Oh, this is a easy question to answer:

Made up stuff some people still believe in = religion.

Made up stuff no one believes in anymore = myth.

With every year that pass we get more myths and less religion...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Oh, this is a easy question to answer:

Made up stuff some people still believe in = religion.

Made up stuff no one believes in anymore = myth.

With every year that pass we get more myths and less religion...

So the proliferation of Novel Christian sects, as well as Scientology counts as "less"?

[Beskar]

Usually the same crowd of people. Religion as a whole is decreasing.

[ajaxfetish]

Word, myth, fable, perhaps it all points to the same thing. However, I'm pretty sure that most Christians wouldn't exactly like you if you called the Bible a myth. We speak of the creation myth, but why don't we address the entire Bible as being mythical?

The Bible is a bit big to generalize that way. It's got sections that are myth (unless you choose to believe they're real), sections that are history, sections that are poetry, sections that are manuals for religious ritual, sections that are morality fables, sections that are philosophy, sections that are advice literature, sections that are prophetic (you might call them myths set in the future), and sections that are action-adventure literature. That's why I wouldn't call the whole Bible mythical.

Ajax

[Megas Methuselah]

The Bible is a bit big to generalize that way. It's got sections that are myth (unless you choose to believe they're real), sections that are history, sections that are poetry, sections that are manuals for religious ritual, sections that are morality fables, sections that are philosophy, sections that are advice literature, sections that are prophetic (you might call them myths set in the future), and sections that are action-adventure literature. That's why I wouldn't call the whole Bible mythical.

Ajax

Hax has a grudge against religion.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Bible is a bit big to generalize that way. It's got sections that are myth (unless you choose to believe they're real), sections that are history, sections that are poetry, sections that are manuals for religious ritual, sections that are morality fables, sections that are philosophy, sections that are advice literature, sections that are prophetic (you might call them myths set in the future), and sections that are action-adventure literature. That's why I wouldn't call the whole Bible mythical.

Ajax

You missed Erotic Poetry from that list.

[Aemilius Paulus]

You missed Erotic Poetry from that list.

Hehe, Songs of Solomon was the Playboy of BC

Well, the kids were not allowed to read it, and when they were, it was a rite of passage - just liek today!

[ajaxfetish]

You missed Erotic Poetry from that list.

I mentioned poetry. I'd consider erotic poetry a subset of that category.

Ajax