Carthage Army Composition

[Moosemanmoo]

Hello!
I've finally convinced myself to start a campaign with the children of Dido (whatever).
After playing Romani and Hellenistic factions with their standard armies I've no idea what to field.
In ignorance can anyone help me?


Does anyone feel like sharing their army compositions?

[Mediolanicus]

Rely heavily on regionals and mercenaries. Only when defending your homelands you should ask your citizens to fight. Though one unit of your elites can always be added to your armies.

Your core will exist out of Liby-Phonicians and Lybians, with support from Spanish warriors and skirmishers from Nort Africa.

[A Very Super Market]

Oh, and don't ever forget your cavalry. The Romans have nothing on yours, be they Lusos, Gauls, or Liby-Phoenicans.

Don't even mention the Sacred Band in proximity to Eqvites if you don't want a horde of Romans with heart attacks blocking your way.

[Dunadd]

Libyan Spearmen are perfectly good infantry - they have decent melee, decent defence and a decent missile attack. Elephants are nice as you can just move them behind your infantry to frighten enemies and cause them to rout when you flank them with cavalry, but they're very very expensive to pay (2500 a turn) and not a necessity. I've never had more than the one unit you start with due to the cost. They're too expensive to use in combat much, except for scaring enemies from behind the lines or charging them in the flank along with cavalry.

As long as you have more archery troops and more cavalry than the enemy you can beat just about any enemy army by holding it with Libyan spearmen then hitting each of the enemy's flanks with 3 or 4 cavalry units.

If fighting Triarii or phalangites you'll need to vary that by hitting them in the back with javelins using Spanish or Numidian light cavalry and/or any free Libyan spear units.

The best archery troops are mercenary Cretan archers and Balaerics, but you can recruit your own Numidian archers and Balaeric slingers in North Africa and the Balaeric isles if you build up your garrisons there a bit. Three archery units is more than enough in most armies, but you might want 4 when you're righting Numidian rebels who have a lot of light cavalry, skirmishers, slingers and archers.

You need archery superiority if your army includes elephants to stop enemy archers and skirmishers sending your elephants wild so they destroy your own army.

The Spanish light cavalry you start with are decent but later on you'll want some mercenary medium or heavy cavalry or more generals with Sacred Band bodyguard cavalry.

Mercenary Phalangites are quite useful as they arent as vulnerable to Roman heavy throwing weapons as your Libyan spearmen.

[keiskander]

Im going to still abit of this thread since it has with Kart-Hadast to do.

I wonder if i can recruit Dosidataskeli from Asturia and Cantabria as Kart-Hadast? Or is it just for Lusotannia faction to use?

[The General]

Im going to still abit of this thread since it has with Kart-Hadast to do.

I wonder if i can recruit Dosidataskeli from Asturia and Cantabria as Kart-Hadast? Or is it just for Lusotannia faction to use?

No one can recruit them (anymore).

[athanaric]

Im going to still abit of this thread since it has with Kart-Hadast to do.

I wonder if i can recruit Dosidataskeli from Asturia and Cantabria as Kart-Hadast? Or is it just for Lusotannia faction to use?

Only the Lusotannan can recruit them, and only if you reenable them manually.

Qart Hadast gets other excellent Iberian troops, though. Especially Iberian Assault Infantry look really great...

[DaciaJC]

Only the Lusotannan can recruit them, and only if you reenable them manually.

Well, if you're going to manually enable recruitment of Dosidataskeli, you can add them to the Kart-Hadastim roster along the way. I can't quite explain how, but the process is detailed in several other threads.

[Kevin]

Why are the Dosidataskeli unrecruitable now? What about the Seleucid version?

[Ludens]

Why are the Dosidataskeli unrecruitable now? What about the Seleucid version?

This was one of the unit whose existence was questioned by fans. I am not sure who created this unit, but he apparently didn't leave the sources used to concept it, so it's existence cannot be confirmed. The Seleucid Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou (TAB) is still in.

By the way, I strongly doubt that the TAB was in any way based on the dosidataskeli. The current units look like each other, but that's because they adapted the TAB model so it could be used for multiple units (there is a limited number of model slots in R:TW). The original TAB looked like a legionary with a large shield and a chainmail veil.

[IrishHitman]

Hello!
I've finally convinced myself to start a campaign with the children of Dido (whatever).
After playing Romani and Hellenistic factions with their standard armies I've no idea what to field.
In ignorance can anyone help me?


Does anyone feel like sharing their army compositions?

More barbarians for Greek boots to crush..

[athanaric]

This was one of the unit whose existence was questioned by fans. I am not sure who created this unit, but he apparently didn't leave the sources used to concept it, so it's existence cannot be confirmed. The Seleucid Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou (TAB) is still in.

AFAIK Dosidataskeli weren't left out for historical accuracy, but for numbers. Apparently they were more, um, a few individual people than a regular unit. Certainly not many enough to justify a recruitable unit.

[Seer7]

Apparently they were more, um, a few individual people than a regular unit. Certainly not many enough to justify a recruitable unit.

I've read through their description recently, and that of the Dubosaverlacica (the Goidilic variant), the only thing close to a source is from that unit's description:

The Dubosaverlacica in Ireland are known from few sources. One, a mostly intact suit of Ceannlann only recently discovered, and another, the Luachmharleanbhan (Lok-mor-len-bon), "Precious Children", a lengthy tract, still being translated, on the warriors employed by the ancient Goidils and Belgae. They are noted at the fields of Firbosis, engaging the Firbolg ('sackmen', actually a slur for indepedent Belgae, and not related to the earlier people Firbolg, or the mythic Firbolg). The Belgae numbered in the thousands. The king of the Goidils sent "Lugh's Blessed", the Uachtarach DuboGaiscaocha, ahead of his army, and they numbered only forty. The Dubosaverlacica had killed nearly one-third of the Belgae by the time the other Goidils reached the battle (surely an exaggerated report). This victory supposedly solidified the rule of a single Goidilic king into the early 1st century AD, over most of Ireland.

Kinda need an EB member to comment on whether more evidence has been found or not. Under the current lack of evidence, I can understand why they were dropped. If I was gonna mod them back in, I'd do it by making them much more expensive in initial cost and upkeep than they were before*, and give them say, only 80 men. That'd make them the same size as the general's bodyguard for the Saba, Sweboz and the Koinon (on huge). I'd justify their smaller size and greater expense, while the Seleukid's TAB are larger and cheaper, by the fact that they were probably never meant to be used in an army for any great length of time, and certainly not often brought together in such numbers. The TAB were a part of the Hypaspistai, which were constantly maintained until the kingdom's decline (I believe?). Despite this, however, I could still see a large and rich western kingdom supporting such a small and expensive unit for the '**** you' factor.

*They are loyal, but somewhat lethargic, difficult to rouse to battle, requiring great deals of compensation, but they are easily among the greatest warriors in the known world.

[Angelspit]

12 infantry (liby phenos)
4 numidian archers
2 cavalry
1 elephant
+ general
1. sail to segesta
2. raze every city you can/avoid non-settlement engagements where u dont have the obvious advantage i.e. bridge battles.
3, use the money to build a second stack, and go thru sicily.
4. win.
i had to retrain both stacks once. this was on VH/VH.
i've pretty much repeated this formula on every faction i've fought so far.
also. make sure to use the archers to kill any skirmishers when you're assaulting walls, you cant afford for ur elephants to get taken out and/or going berzerk.

[Zim]

I tend to recruit my armies locally. My Iberian provinces provide largely Romanish armies, with lots of Iberian heavy infantry supported by regional cav and balearic slingers. In italy I recruit a lot of Hastati supported by Neitos and other Celtic units, then my Liby-Pheonician units from Africa supported by Numidians.

[antisocialmunky]

I've read through their description recently, and that of the Dubosaverlacica (the Goidilic variant), the only thing close to a source is from that unit's description:



Kinda need an EB member to comment on whether more evidence has been found or not. Under the current lack of evidence, I can understand why they were dropped. If I was gonna mod them back in, I'd do it by making them much more expensive in initial cost and upkeep than they were before*, and give them say, only 80 men. That'd make them the same size as the general's bodyguard for the Saba, Sweboz and the Koinon (on huge). I'd justify their smaller size and greater expense, while the Seleukid's TAB are larger and cheaper, by the fact that they were probably never meant to be used in an army for any great length of time, and certainly not often brought together in such numbers. The TAB were a part of the Hypaspistai, which were constantly maintained until the kingdom's decline (I believe?). Despite this, however, I could still see a large and rich western kingdom supporting such a small and expensive unit for the '**** you' factor.

Hopefully EBII will represent them in smaller unit sizes use for bodyguard or something.

[athanaric]

I tend to recruit my armies locally. My Iberian provinces provide largely Romanish armies, with lots of Iberian heavy infantry supported by regional cav and balearic slingers. In italy I recruit a lot of Hastati supported by Neitos and other Celtic units, then my Liby-Pheonician units from Africa supported by Numidians.

Indeed, half of the fun of a Carthaginian campaign is that because of their excellent recruitment possibilities, you can play "several factions at once" and create local Iberian, Gallic, Hellenic/Italic, or Numidian armies that are (almost) self-sufficient in terms of balance.

[Cute Wolf]

If I play as kart hadast, my northern region army consists of mostly Iberians and Celts, with some core is General with 1 Sacred band Cav or 2 Sacred band Inf / Elite African Axemen..... to represent Carthaginian Elites.... Against those incest maniacs, I often use Libyans and Numidian Nobles (the numidian cav sucks), but that's because importing Iberians and Celts is simply not worth against massive Phalangitai Elites that Ptolemaioi throws....

[Zim]

Indeed, half of the fun of a Carthaginian campaign is that because of their excellent recruitment possibilities, you can play "several factions at once" and create local Iberian, Gallic, Hellenic/Italic, or Numidian armies that are (almost) self-sufficient in terms of balance.

Yeah, it's gone a long way towards keeping the long campaign I've been playing interesting.

Two questions for fans of Carthage. I tend to try to rp while playing, including putting together stacks that are semi realistic (mostly in not building them all out of a single unit and not using more than a few elites). Aside from the obvious (Sacred Band, "Elite" African Infantry, etc). ,What Carthaginian units would be considered elite? As the game advances and enemy armies become much tougher, I've been building my armies out of a core of Scutarii or heavy Libyans, never counting them against my limit on elite troops, but I noticed at least for the latter their description equates them with Thorakitai, which I would consider as bordering on elite...

Also, anyone make it into Anatolia as Carthage? I'm having a heck of a time finding anything regional worth making an army out of. Even nearby Tylis and Byzantion so far don't seem to be producing the good regional troops I expect playing as other factions (Ankyra does show some promise), and in most of Anatolia itself I can recruit very little, basically eastern cav, Anatolian Hillmen, and a couple greek units.

[DaciaJC]

I would consider Iberian Assault Infantry to be elite. 14 armor, and the EB description calls them "elite assault infantry".

[Zim]

Those guys are great. I try not to throw them into the fray until they're absolutely needed, but I know they'll take down anthing in their path when they do finally fight.

I guess I was most worried about the Libyan Heavy Spearmen and the regular Iberian Heavy Infantry. Once in a while I'll recruit about five of either of them to form my main battle line.

[Andronikos]

Karthadast is a faction with largest number of elite units. They can recruit even Gaesatae.