Carthage Army Composition

[Ludens]

Why are the Dosidataskeli unrecruitable now? What about the Seleucid version?

This was one of the unit whose existence was questioned by fans. I am not sure who created this unit, but he apparently didn't leave the sources used to concept it, so it's existence cannot be confirmed. The Seleucid Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou (TAB) is still in.

By the way, I strongly doubt that the TAB was in any way based on the dosidataskeli. The current units look like each other, but that's because they adapted the TAB model so it could be used for multiple units (there is a limited number of model slots in R:TW). The original TAB looked like a legionary with a large shield and a chainmail veil.

[athanaric]

This was one of the unit whose existence was questioned by fans. I am not sure who created this unit, but he apparently didn't leave the sources used to concept it, so it's existence cannot be confirmed. The Seleucid Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou (TAB) is still in.

AFAIK Dosidataskeli weren't left out for historical accuracy, but for numbers. Apparently they were more, um, a few individual people than a regular unit. Certainly not many enough to justify a recruitable unit.

[Seer7]

Apparently they were more, um, a few individual people than a regular unit. Certainly not many enough to justify a recruitable unit.

I've read through their description recently, and that of the Dubosaverlacica (the Goidilic variant), the only thing close to a source is from that unit's description:

The Dubosaverlacica in Ireland are known from few sources. One, a mostly intact suit of Ceannlann only recently discovered, and another, the Luachmharleanbhan (Lok-mor-len-bon), "Precious Children", a lengthy tract, still being translated, on the warriors employed by the ancient Goidils and Belgae. They are noted at the fields of Firbosis, engaging the Firbolg ('sackmen', actually a slur for indepedent Belgae, and not related to the earlier people Firbolg, or the mythic Firbolg). The Belgae numbered in the thousands. The king of the Goidils sent "Lugh's Blessed", the Uachtarach DuboGaiscaocha, ahead of his army, and they numbered only forty. The Dubosaverlacica had killed nearly one-third of the Belgae by the time the other Goidils reached the battle (surely an exaggerated report). This victory supposedly solidified the rule of a single Goidilic king into the early 1st century AD, over most of Ireland.

Kinda need an EB member to comment on whether more evidence has been found or not. Under the current lack of evidence, I can understand why they were dropped. If I was gonna mod them back in, I'd do it by making them much more expensive in initial cost and upkeep than they were before*, and give them say, only 80 men. That'd make them the same size as the general's bodyguard for the Saba, Sweboz and the Koinon (on huge). I'd justify their smaller size and greater expense, while the Seleukid's TAB are larger and cheaper, by the fact that they were probably never meant to be used in an army for any great length of time, and certainly not often brought together in such numbers. The TAB were a part of the Hypaspistai, which were constantly maintained until the kingdom's decline (I believe?). Despite this, however, I could still see a large and rich western kingdom supporting such a small and expensive unit for the '**** you' factor.

*They are loyal, but somewhat lethargic, difficult to rouse to battle, requiring great deals of compensation, but they are easily among the greatest warriors in the known world.

[Angelspit]

12 infantry (liby phenos)
4 numidian archers
2 cavalry
1 elephant
+ general
1. sail to segesta
2. raze every city you can/avoid non-settlement engagements where u dont have the obvious advantage i.e. bridge battles.
3, use the money to build a second stack, and go thru sicily.
4. win.
i had to retrain both stacks once. this was on VH/VH.
i've pretty much repeated this formula on every faction i've fought so far.
also. make sure to use the archers to kill any skirmishers when you're assaulting walls, you cant afford for ur elephants to get taken out and/or going berzerk.

[Zim]

I tend to recruit my armies locally. My Iberian provinces provide largely Romanish armies, with lots of Iberian heavy infantry supported by regional cav and balearic slingers. In italy I recruit a lot of Hastati supported by Neitos and other Celtic units, then my Liby-Pheonician units from Africa supported by Numidians.

[athanaric]

I tend to recruit my armies locally. My Iberian provinces provide largely Romanish armies, with lots of Iberian heavy infantry supported by regional cav and balearic slingers. In italy I recruit a lot of Hastati supported by Neitos and other Celtic units, then my Liby-Pheonician units from Africa supported by Numidians.

Indeed, half of the fun of a Carthaginian campaign is that because of their excellent recruitment possibilities, you can play "several factions at once" and create local Iberian, Gallic, Hellenic/Italic, or Numidian armies that are (almost) self-sufficient in terms of balance.

[Cute Wolf]

If I play as kart hadast, my northern region army consists of mostly Iberians and Celts, with some core is General with 1 Sacred band Cav or 2 Sacred band Inf / Elite African Axemen..... to represent Carthaginian Elites.... Against those incest maniacs, I often use Libyans and Numidian Nobles (the numidian cav sucks), but that's because importing Iberians and Celts is simply not worth against massive Phalangitai Elites that Ptolemaioi throws....

[Zim]

Indeed, half of the fun of a Carthaginian campaign is that because of their excellent recruitment possibilities, you can play "several factions at once" and create local Iberian, Gallic, Hellenic/Italic, or Numidian armies that are (almost) self-sufficient in terms of balance.

Yeah, it's gone a long way towards keeping the long campaign I've been playing interesting.

Two questions for fans of Carthage. I tend to try to rp while playing, including putting together stacks that are semi realistic (mostly in not building them all out of a single unit and not using more than a few elites). Aside from the obvious (Sacred Band, "Elite" African Infantry, etc). ,What Carthaginian units would be considered elite? As the game advances and enemy armies become much tougher, I've been building my armies out of a core of Scutarii or heavy Libyans, never counting them against my limit on elite troops, but I noticed at least for the latter their description equates them with Thorakitai, which I would consider as bordering on elite...

Also, anyone make it into Anatolia as Carthage? I'm having a heck of a time finding anything regional worth making an army out of. Even nearby Tylis and Byzantion so far don't seem to be producing the good regional troops I expect playing as other factions (Ankyra does show some promise), and in most of Anatolia itself I can recruit very little, basically eastern cav, Anatolian Hillmen, and a couple greek units.

[antisocialmunky]

I've read through their description recently, and that of the Dubosaverlacica (the Goidilic variant), the only thing close to a source is from that unit's description:



Kinda need an EB member to comment on whether more evidence has been found or not. Under the current lack of evidence, I can understand why they were dropped. If I was gonna mod them back in, I'd do it by making them much more expensive in initial cost and upkeep than they were before*, and give them say, only 80 men. That'd make them the same size as the general's bodyguard for the Saba, Sweboz and the Koinon (on huge). I'd justify their smaller size and greater expense, while the Seleukid's TAB are larger and cheaper, by the fact that they were probably never meant to be used in an army for any great length of time, and certainly not often brought together in such numbers. The TAB were a part of the Hypaspistai, which were constantly maintained until the kingdom's decline (I believe?). Despite this, however, I could still see a large and rich western kingdom supporting such a small and expensive unit for the '**** you' factor.

Hopefully EBII will represent them in smaller unit sizes use for bodyguard or something.