Speutogordoz

[Macilrille]

It doesn't need to break the armour the real killer is the blunt force of the blow (which clubs and maces are better in transmitting to the target than swords or spears) which could break bones and burst internal organs without damaging the armour. Getting hit by a club while wearing chain mail would be little different from being hit whilst wearing nothing. Also IIRC some of the unit descriptions say they used to put pieces of bone or metal into the clubs to allow them to punch holes in armour.

At this time of year we admit new prospective members to come and train with us. We put them through a rigourus training programme. One of the things we do is to let them train with a socalled "Bøllekølle" (literally Thug-Club). It is a 5 cm across, 70-80 cm long oak club with a band of metal fastened around the top to give it the proper balance for a weapon. I guess it weighs 2.5 Kg or so, and I tell you that if I was wearing my chainmail I would rather be hit by a sword than that or an axe. It transmits tremendous force and can easily shatter bones.

www.ask-viking.dk

[Cute Wolf]

About the shield rating, I didn't reduce the Phalangitai's rate, I raise the "Phalangitai wannabe" shield values...

[Kikaz]

The Results of my experimentation (unit size: large):

Vanilla-
Spuedogorðoz vs. Toxotai= Toxotai inflicted 19 casualties with their arrows.

Spuedogorðoz vs. Triarii (Polybian)= Triarii victory, Spuedogorðoz inflict 39 casualties.

Spuedogorðoz vs. Principes (Polybian)= Principes victory (6 casualties for 1 javelin volley,) Spuedogorðoz inflict 32 casualties.

Spuedogorðoz vs. Lugoae= Spuedogorðoz victory, Lugoae inflict 47 casualties.


Shield +2-
Spuedogorðoz vs. Toxotai= Toxotai inflicted 9 casualties with their arrows.

Spuedogorðoz vs. Triarii (Polybian)= Triarii victory, Spuedogorðoz inflict 45 casualties.

Spuedogorðoz vs. Principes (Polybian)= Principes victory (3 casualties for 1 javelin volley,) Spuedogorðoz inflict 59 casualties.


Shield +3, Defense skill -1-
Spuedogorðoz vs. Toxotai= Toxotai inflicted 3 casualties with their arrows.

Spuedogorðoz vs. Triarii (Polybian)= Spuedogorðoz victory, Triarii inflict 67 casualties

Spuedogorðoz vs. Principes (Polybian)= Principes victory (2 casualties for 1 javelin volley,) Spuedogorðoz inflict 70 casualties.

Spuedogorðoz vs. Leuce Epos= Spuedogorðoz victory, Leuce Epos inflict 21 casualties (0 casualties inflicted by entire javelin supply)

Spuedogorðoz vs. Pantodapoi Phalangitai= Pantodapoi Phalangitai victory, Spuedogorðoz inflict 1 casualty.


Shield +3, Defense skill -1, Armor Penetration, -1 Attack-
Spuedogorðoz vs. Triarii (Polybian)= Spuedogorðoz victory, Triarii inflict 31 casualties.

Spuedogorðoz vs. Principes (Polybian)= Spuedogorðoz victory, Principes inflict 28 casualties (1 casualty for 1 javelin volley.)

Spuedogorðoz vs. Leuce Epos= Spuedogorðoz victory, Leuce Epos inflict 16 casualties (1 casualty
inflicted by entire javelin supply.)

Spuedogorðoz vs. Spartiate Hoplitai= Spuedogorðoz victory, Spartiate Hoplitai inflict 41 casualties.

Spuedogorðoz vs. Lugoae= Spuedogorðoz victory, Lugoae inflict 40 casualties.




Conclusion-

Increasing the shield value of the Spuedogorðoz by 3, lowering the attack and defense skills by 1, and adding AP, produces what seems to match the description most closely. They aren't quite as invulnerable to arrows as Phalangitai, but they aren't supposed to be either. Spuedogorðoz are now the most efficient melee (non-phalanx) cavalry killer and can now work as sort of a defensive version of Druxtiz ßastarniska. There was no way to fix the incredible weakness that Spuedogorðoz have to flanking and encirclement (which is why the Lugoae inflicted so many casualties,) because giving them their swords back doesn't quite render properly.

Other Findings-

Spuedogorðoz are awful if given phalanx mode. I tried them out, and they're simply not a large enough unit to effectively use phalanx (and their pikes and pike-heads get much shorter.) Findings were quite similar when Spuedogorðoz were given the "short_pike" attribute. The "spear" attribute made them pathetic fighters who would sometimes completely turn their backs to the enemy in combat.

"short_pike" attribute creates a more accurate hoplite phalanx than what is currently used in EB.

Dungunðiz murder Principes...

Other Notes-

If anyone wants, I can upload my "export_unit_descr" to the mini-mods section... I'm probably going to be working on a more ambitious modification of the spear-troops of EB.

[DaciaJC]

I think giving Spuedogorðoz the AP ability is erroneous. Units don't have AP to balance themselves out: they are given the AP ability because historically the weapons they used were able to pierce or blunt armor. This was not the case with pike phalanxes.

[Kikaz]

I think giving Spuedogorðoz the AP ability is erroneous. Units don't have AP to balance themselves out: they are given the AP ability because historically the weapons they used were able to pierce or blunt armor. This was not the case with pike phalanxes.

Load up EB multiplayer

Click single Player

Go to custom battle

make your faction Sweboz

give yourself a unit of Spuedogorðoz (and whatever for the enemy, it is moot)

when the battle starts, pause, and right-click your Spuedogorðoz unit card...


... You see?

[DaciaJC]

Thanks for mitigating the humiliation with a clown smiley...

I wonder why the EB team didn't originally give them AP, then.

[Kevin]

I'm sure any sarissa can be AP, as long as the wielder is strong enough, especially if the target runs straight at the point.

[Kikaz]

Thanks for mitigating the humiliation with a clown smiley...

I wonder why the EB team didn't originally give them AP, then.

You're very welcome my friend.

The EB team has missed a few things... I mean, even in version 1.2 we still have units with backwards spears.

[king of thracia]

Load up EB multiplayer

Click single Player

Go to custom battle

make your faction Sweboz

give yourself a unit of Spuedogorðoz (and whatever for the enemy, it is moot)

when the battle starts, pause, and right-click your Spuedogorðoz unit card...


... You see?

There's an easier way to look up units. Besides browsing through the data files, there's http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/

I don't mean to use up the man's bandwidth, but he has rendered a public service for all to see