Speutogordoz

**Andronikos** · 09-23-2009, 21:36

Originally Posted by Kikaz

The EB team has missed a few things... I mean, even in version 1.2 we still have units with backwards spears.

I don't know which unit you mean, but few spearmen, especially those fighting in classic hoplite style have spears with two spearheads, larger one in the front and a smaller one in the back, it was used to finish fallen soldiers while walking over them, turning the spear wouldn't be practical and possible without breaking the formation.

**Kevin** · 09-23-2009, 21:40

Well then, shouldn't Camilian Principe have AP then too? Their spearheads are huge. And he means when hoplite units walk, they flip their spear into the ground.

**Phalanx300** · 09-23-2009, 22:52

Might be because its two handed and thus has much more force behind it, and the Speutaz was apparantly really big, maybe 40 cm or something? I'm wondering though how long was the entire spear?

**bobbin** · 09-24-2009, 00:08

I'm not sure the team intended them to have AP as their spears already have higher lethality than all other non sarissa spears (0.15 which is exactly half way between normal spears and sarissa) even those of the other psuedo-phalanx units.

**Kikaz** · 09-25-2009, 02:17

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well then, shouldn't Camilian Principe have AP then too? Their spearheads are huge. And he means when hoplite units walk, they flip their spear into the ground.

Principes have the same size spear head as Gaeroas.

Does no one play as Sweboz!?

I was referring to the spearmen (Chauci Spearmen) who literally have backwards spears, as in, they stab only each other... And I think there's another unit of backwards spearmen but I don't remember what they were.....

Originally Posted by bobbin

I'm not sure the team intended them to have AP as their spears already have higher lethality than all other non sarissa spears (0.15 which is exactly half way between normal spears and sarissa) even those of the other psuedo-phalanx units.

well... It works, it's not over powered or anything. They still pale in comparison to the sheer killing fury exhibited by falxmen, axemen, clubmen, and broadswordsmen (probably because .15 lethality is less than any of theirs, and their attack speed is slower, plus the dis-advantage spears have against infantry.) The Spuedogorðoz still get

by phalangitai (x10), falxmen, and broadswordsmen, as well as most axemen, and virtually any kind of flanking.

**athanaric** · 09-25-2009, 11:12

Originally Posted by Kikaz

And I think there's another unit of backwards spearmen but I don't remember what they were.....

Gaut Spearmen.

**NeoSpartan** · 09-26-2009, 03:57

fellas here is the deal:

Phalangitai units have 5 shield value in EB to make them STRONGER in a frontal assult. However, phalangitai units have their other defense values lower so they are WEAKER when hit in the rear.

In EB the Speutogordoz are not represented as phalangitai like the Macedonian version. They are slightly different, from the discussions in this forum when the Speutogordoz were introduced at 1st they were like a Macedonian phalanx, but this was changed.

As for the AP value of Speutogordoz. Their pikes were notorios for having a longer than usual point, and their pikes are NOT like the Macedonian's.

**Macilrille** · 09-26-2009, 08:43

However, these very big spearheads are designed to dish out harm to unarmoured opponents.

Big, broad spearheads = max damage to unarmed, little penetration against armour; Pushing lots of metal surface through much metal surface is hard while against unarmoured you can make huge gashes slashing and stabbing with it). However, against horses it is an excellent option if these are unarmoured (which in that period and area they were).

Slender spearheads = max damage to armoured opponents, not much different to unarmoured (easier to push a small metal area through another metal surface, but you cannot in the same way make huge gashes with slender points).

So perhaps, no AP, but more damage?

Edited to add, Ludens already said that.

**ziegenpeter** · 09-26-2009, 10:18

Originally Posted by Macilrille

Big, broad spearheads = max damage to unarmed, little penetration against armour; Pushing lots of metal surface through much metal surface is hard while against unarmoured you can make huge gashes slashing and stabbing with it).

Which makes totally sense, since there wasnt so much armor around in germania at that time.

**Kevin** · 09-26-2009, 17:40

How exactly does the AP ability work anyways? Does it entirely neglect the other units armor or is it a partial advantage. For example, when facing a unit like the Dosidataskeli (which sadly has been taken out

), I can understand units like the Drapanai being able to penetrate their armor with their Falxes, but not units like the Illyrioi Paraktioi being able to do the same with their clubs.

**Kikaz** · 09-29-2009, 01:14

Originally Posted by Macilrille

However, these very big spearheads are designed to dish out harm to unarmoured opponents.

Big, broad spearheads = max damage to unarmed, little penetration against armour; Pushing lots of metal surface through much metal surface is hard while against unarmoured you can make huge gashes slashing and stabbing with it). However, against horses it is an excellent option if these are unarmoured (which in that period and area they were).

Slender spearheads = max damage to armoured opponents, not much different to unarmoured (easier to push a small metal area through another metal surface, but you cannot in the same way make huge gashes with slender points).

So perhaps, no AP, but more damage?

Edited to add, Ludens already said that.

Spuedogorðoz do have pretty slender spearheads...
I'll try out giving them more lethality (instead of AP,) I'll post the results when I'm done