Refitting the Map

[Ca Putt]

huh? everytime I conquer a capital via naval invasion the garrison may be pathetic(Coast hopping with 2 spartans 2 cretans 1 trakioi prodromoi ftw and one KH FM) but the attacked always sends almost all his armies to that location which gives my real armies the chance to push the front line further into enemy territory. worked with romans carthagians Ptolemaioi Lusotani and selekids(tho this was due to bribe)

[tarem]

the funniest invasion i've had in EB1.2 happened just yesterday. after capturing the Seleukid capitol of Seleukea and Babilon in a single turn (they were left deffenseless with only 2-4 units guarding them) i stopped all offensive actions against them and decided to camp outside the cities untill i can secure their deffences. after some 15 season i sent one army north and another east. both around 2200-2300 men (mixed composition as always-phalanx,spearmen,archers,skirish infantry and cav as well as lancers) knowing that the AI would avoid counter attacking a full stack at all costs. and then to my great surprise after my eastern army group stopped just as came to a bridge, the seleukid turn was something i've never seen before. 3 succesive counter attacks with stacks numbering 1800, 2600 and 3200 men accordingly. the end result was naturally a total rout for the enemy wit no more then 300 men lost (the bridge crossing tactics) but what surprised me was the AI's initiative. does this happen always when you are inside enemy teritory on a bridge crossing?

[Fluvius Camillus]

In my opinion the map is fine as it is...

~Fluvius

[Moros]

Well.... Tell us the importance of ancient arabia in the EB timeframe and why nobody ever bothered conquering all of it? I know the sassanids atacked the arabian peninsula a few times and defeated many arabian tribes, but still they didnt bother conquering it.
Or am I wrong?
Oh and the cultural influences as important as they may be are nothing, that are reflected in a total war game?

Alexander wanted too, he just died to early. The Parthians/sassanids did conquer the eastern parts, the Persians had done so before them. They even rivaled with the romans in Arabia to gain as much from trade as possible. The Romans tried to conquer Arabia felix but failed (they blaimed the weather and their Nabataean guide). So yes you are wrong.

A longer post would have followed, if I just had more time. Though if you search for it I'm quite sure you'll find a better awser as I have posted explainations for Saba''s inclusion before.

[Griggori]

My only concern about the revelation that the map is going to be 30% larger is that, IIRC, In Medieval 2 the zone of control is still small for an army. A larger zone of control is, to my mind, the only worthwhile contribution from Empire to the future of the Total War games. Will you be able to hold strategic passes, I wonder? Or will there always be room for an army to sneak past?

I am not a coder in the least, but it would seem reasonable if after an army was stationed at a place for a while, its zone of control expanded, reflecting scouts and established control and lay of the land. I doubt though that the zone of control can be altered by programming.

[lobf]

Alexander wanted too, he just died to early.

Perhaps this is common knowledge, but I haven't heard it before. Source?

The Parthians/sassanids did conquer the eastern parts, the Persians had done so before them.

In the EB time frame? Source?

They even rivaled with the romans in Arabia to gain as much from trade as possible. The Romans tried to conquer Arabia felix but failed (they blaimed the weather and their Nabataean guide). So yes you are wrong.

Source?

Don't take this shit personally. I'm just interested in learning more.

[Foot]

Perhaps this is common knowledge, but I haven't heard it before. Source?



In the EB time frame? Source?



Source?

Don't take this shit personally. I'm just interested in learning more.

Then perhaps you need to learn how to ask in a less aggressive and confrontational way. Something along the lines of:

"Huh, that's really interesting. Where could I find out more about this?"

Most people seem to be able to do this, I would be suprised if you were unable to you.

Foot

[lobf]

Then perhaps you need to learn how to ask in a less aggressive and confrontational way. Something along the lines of:

"Huh, that's really interesting. Where could I find out more about this?"

Most people seem to be able to do this, I would be suprised if you were unable to you.

Foot

Or I could just say "source?"

I should be able to ask for a source without pussyfooting around to make a potentially sensitive person feel good. There is nothing inherently aggressive in asking for a source. And I even ended the post with "I'm just interested in learning more" in case he took it all as a challenge.

Why take it personally? This is an academic forum.

[-Praetor-]

It is just a matter or reciprocity, lobf. Politeness is returned with politeness, and what you call pussyfooting actually makes a debate enjoyable rather than confrontational.

[Foot]

Or I could just say "source?"

I should be able to ask for a source without pussyfooting around to make a potentially sensitive person feel good. There is nothing inherently aggressive in asking for a source. And I even ended the post with "I'm just interested in learning more" in case he took it all as a challenge.

Why take it personally? This is an academic forum.

Are you being obtuse on purpose, or are you really this confrontantial? Do you really not see how it reads for us, those who have given our lives for this mod (quite literally in some cases). Are you so lacking in empathy, or is this some sort of vendetta, or something else perhaps.

I'm amazed. I really am. Your original post that I responded to really does sound like you have already formed an opinion and are simply assuming that we are talking bollocks. I can assure you that Moros knows what he is talking about, and to the detriment of his potential in other areas: he went out and found this information.

Foot

[Bucefalo]

What useful is knowing history, if you don´t have manners?. Knowing how to ask is as important (and sometimes more) as knowing what you are talking about. You can be completely clueless about something but ask it in a polite way, and learn something while you are at it. So Lobf you better rephrase your questions, or otherwise you will learn very few history.

[The General]

Perhaps this is common knowledge, but I haven't heard it before. Source?

From :http://arabiafelix.humnet.unipi.it/p...ent_after.html

With the Asian expedition of Alexander, the Greek world has the occasion for a radical change of the Arabia's knowledge, because the peninsula is discovered. Alexander is attracted much more by geographical position of Arabia as a connection between oriental and occidental part of the empire, according to a "British" strategic vision, but his death (on 10th June 323 a.C.) is the end of a grand plan.

In the EB time frame? Source?

From the supreme authority in all things, Wikipedia:
Parthia:

Sassanid empire:

Sassanids of course well out of EB's time frame, but that's obvious enough for everyone who's ever opened a history book, now innit. However, both Byzantines and Sassanids sported an interest in Arabia as both supported buffer states of their own

Source?

Arabia Felix
Aelius Gallus
And from
http://arabiafelix.humnet.unipi.it/p...edizione1.html:

After Alexander's dream of conquering the country of perfume, the only real attempt at military conquest was launched by Augustus. This ambitious plan which was again based on vague and contradictory geographical knowledge was launched under Aelius Gallus the Roman prefect of Egypt. The Roman army of ten thousand men moved into Arabia from the north from the Nabataean port of Leuke Kome. Crossing the Arabian peninsula proved disastrous for the Romans. Having set forth to conquer a country of knowledge, glory and wealth, they were decimated by hunger, thirst and heat. The overwhelming military superiority of the Romans that had brought them total victory in the clashes with south Arabian armies with practically no casualties of their own was completely useless. When they arrived within sight of the capital of Saba they had to turn back and retreat.
The return trip was much swifter - sixty days compared to the six months outwards and provided the chance to blame the Nabataean guide for the defeat and justify Aelius Gallus.

That's what a little googling finds, but I've read about both expeditions (Alexander's planned one and Aelius Gallus's unsuccesful one) but cba visit my local librabry to find what the names of the books were that I read 3-5 years ago, sorreh. I kind of thought that Alexander's plans for Arabia were relatively known since I recall some theories (hypotheses) about his death based on malaria catched in southern Mesopotamia as he was inspecting the work done to prepare for the invasion or something along those lines.

[Moros]

Well thanks the General that saved me some work.

Also Lobf while I could understand you demanding sources for a claim, this is rather basic knowledge when it comes to Ancient arabia, and you could have found out yourself merely using wikipedia.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Sounds like some people need to calm down. Let's not freakout over a pointless thing. We all know and love lobf for his skepticism, lets not get angry over it, especially since he has been posting with such skepticism for two years here.

[Megas Methuselah]

Lobf reminds me of myself when he's proudly rude like this. Luv it.

[Moros]

Lobf reminds me of myself when he's proudly rude like this. Luv it.

[-Praetor-]

Lobf reminds me of myself when he's proudly rude like this. Luv it.

What's there to be proud of?

[risker]

In my opinion the map is fine as it is...

~Fluvius

Seconded. Keep it simple. The AI isthe problem, not the map.


As for the Saba, unless you play it, it was mainly there so The Seulekids or The Ptolies could gobble 'em up in no time. A scapegoat.


Let's face it, if they get the AI right then I'm a happy player. But don't go all the way to indochina, just keep it simple but better quality.


Quality over quantity.

[Subotan]

Lobf reminds me of myself when he's proudly rude like this. Luv it.

Or does Meth remind me of Lobf?



Also, stupid question, but is the province limit in MTW:II the same as in RTW?

[Azathoth]

Also, stupid question, but is the province limit in MTW:II the same as in RTW?

Correct on both counts.

[antisocialmunky]

I thought it was 2 less.

[Azathoth]

According to Krusader, it's 198. Huh.

[The Fuzz]

Well...Sab'yn is going to be the first faction I play, so...keep up the good work, Moros. :)

[Foot]

According to Krusader, it's 198. Huh.

I cannot find where he has written that. However, I can confirm that the the maximum number of provinces is 199 + 1 sea province making 200 in total. This is the same limit as is found in RTW.

Foot

[Subotan]

That's odd. Does that mean the sea has a capital?

[Foot]

That's odd. Does that mean the sea has a capital?

No, because the the sea province is defined as a sea region, rather than as a land region. Different standards are involved.

Foot

[risker]

Stupid Question, Are you planning to extend the map?

[Azathoth]

I cannot find where he has written that. However, I can confirm that the the maximum number of provinces is 199 + 1 sea province making 200 in total. This is the same limit as is found in RTW.

Foot

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...it#post1469470

That's what I get for not checking the date!

[Krusader]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...it#post1469470

That's what I get for not checking the date!

Hey look at that!

But I think I made that comment before we did more thourough testing. Think we found out that it was still 199 provinces, but just that M2TW had two sea provinces.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Stupid Question, Are you planning to extend the map?

They are not. You can see in one of the previews there is a pic of the campaign screen and the mini map is shown in the bottom corner covering the same land area as EB1.