America - The Freest Country?

PC Mode

Rhyfelwyr 18:33 09-18-2009

Originally Posted by Lemur:
I think we should all take a quick scan of Hume's work on this subject, Leviathan, for a refresher on just how much infrastructure "freedom" requires.

That be Hobbes work, managed to get him in the bad books of both sides in the civil war.

Originally Posted by Meneldil:
I beg to disagree. The second Paris Commune wasn't ruled by the strongest or by the more capable, and I think the same applies to the anarcho-syndicalist communes of the Spanish civil war era. As those are more or less the only example of applied anarchism we have, I can't see where you got the idea that anarchy = chaos.

How much of that is due to the fact that the existing social structures never had time to be properly dismantled?

Lemur 19:06 09-18-2009

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr:
That be Hobbes work, managed to get him in the bad books of both sides in the civil war.

The sad thing is I knew that and still typed Hume. Entirely my bad, apologies.

Samurai Waki 19:34 09-18-2009

I'm tired of Americans who have never been to other parts of the world (and likewise people who have never been to America) who like to say "America is the freest country on earth" it's juvenile. Freedom is an entirely subjective term, depending on whose saying it. Yes, we're definitely one of the freest countries on the planet, but no more than many others. I'm inclined to agree with Husar, the system has flaws, lots and lots of flaws, but maybe it attempts better than most to strike a balance between Economic, Judiciary, and Civic Freedoms. I however wouldn't say, that it's the best system for everybody, and begs a deeper question, what is freedom, exactly?

Fragony 19:58 09-18-2009

Originally Posted by Wakizashi:
I'm tired of Americans who have never been to other parts of the world (and likewise people who have never been to America)

Not sure you placed the brackets right. Educated americans usually think too highly of Europe for whatever reason no idea. Let's take France for example, ask the average Frenchmen to point out a random European country he/she/french will have no idea. Met some francaises who didn't even know germans speak german, one was a doctor the other was an architect.

Samurai Waki 20:14 09-18-2009

Originally Posted by Fragony:
Not sure you placed the brackets right. Educated americans usually think too highly of Europe for whatever reason no idea.

I believe you're right, actually, I know you're right (I have several members in my family that follow this exact line of thought). It's an elitist view, that Europeans, and their culture are far more enlightened than the otherwise brutish, and dim Americans. There's also quite a few Europeans, who themselves believe in this superiority. I could give an example, of an Orgah who seems to think this, but I'm sure you already know who it is (and it's not Louis)

. But this nothing new, it's been going on for centuries.

Although, I think your example highlights a human flaw, and not one that is strictly American or European.

LittleGrizzly 20:18 09-18-2009

I don't think its just America... some people in Britian cast jealous glances towards the mainland thinking of us as loutish thugs...

I would think among the majority of the population Americans are less likely to be like that being the worlds superpower... Im sure the British thought themselves something special back in the day...

Brenus 20:42 09-18-2009

“ask the average Frenchmen to point out a random European country he/she/french will have no idea”: Depends on the age of the “average” French. Old generations had to learn maps by heart (and named all the capital cities and rivers and main productions and …. of countries…)

“Met some francaises who didn't even know germans speak german, one was a doctor the other was an architect.”
I knew it. When I was kid we had compulsory language at school, and choice for the first language was English or German. I knew the level went down right after I left….

“I could give an example, of an Orgah who seems to think this, but I'm sure you already know who it is” I want names!!!!

Husar 23:37 09-18-2009

Originally Posted by Wakizashi:
I believe you're right, actually, I know you're right (I have several members in my family that follow this exact line of thought). It's an elitist view, that Europeans, and their culture are far more enlightened than the otherwise brutish, and dim Americans.

I like to behave like this for fun. And if I told you every time it would not be as much fun anymore.

I think different countries in the western world are...different.
The USA (America is a really large continent with many countries for Europe's sake!) is behind in healthcare, Germany is behind in corporate identity, the UK is behind in destroying cameras, France is behind in language etc.

All countries have their ups and downs but are generally much better than North Korea.

Oh yeah, of course saying this makes me some rainbow-coulored liberal lalaleftie who is completely naive and doesn't see what kind of fascist regimes are enslaving him.

Hax 23:41 09-18-2009

Originally Posted by :
All countries have their ups and downs but are generally much better than North Korea.

Lies and slander, how dare you insult our great Leader Kim Il-Jung and his immortal father, Kim Il-Sung?! That will be prison for you!

Manse! Manse! Manse!*

*cry similar to the Japanse "banzai", meaning "ten thousand years".

Meneldil 21:13 09-18-2009

Originally Posted by Fragony:
Not sure you placed the brackets right. Educated americans usually think too highly of Europe for whatever reason no idea. Let's take France for example, ask the average Frenchmen to point out a random European country he/she/french will have no idea. Met some francaises who didn't even know germans speak german, one was a doctor the other was an architect.

I've hanged out with the worst kind of scums at times (in high school) and they all knew germans speak german

I know the average french undergrad is not really smart, but not knowing Germany? Either you met the dumbest french girls ever, or you're simply making it up. People still have to learn by earth the name of every european country and of its capital, as well as the major rivers and mountains if they want to get into a university (and the vast majority of people go to the university). Heck, there's a whole 2 months-long geography lesson about Germany, its culture and its economy in high school.

Originally Posted by Brenus:
“I could give an example, of an Orgah who seems to think this, but I'm sure you already know who it is” I want names!!!!

I plead guilty. After having studied for more than 8 months in Canada, I think the Canadian education system would make the french one look marvellous. People in 4th or 5th year of Poli Sci, Geography or History would get beaten to pulp while trying to pass any kind of french first year exam. And I'm not even talking about the completely useless courses, such as 'Philosophy of Love', 'Celtic Culture', 'Feminist Marxism' and other assorted mumbo-jumbo.
Things might be different in the US though.

Quite obviously, I did my best to show all the crude Canadians and Americans I've met that I'm superior (and freer) on every level, and to act as the biggest arrogant *** ever.

Conclusion: Frenchmen visiting America are freer to act as

than anyone else.

Evil_Maniac From Mars 21:33 09-18-2009

Originally Posted by Meneldil:
I plead guilty. After having studied for more than 8 months in Canada, I think the Canadian education system would make the french one look marvellous. People in 4th or 5th year of Poli Sci, Geography or History would get beaten to pulp while trying to pass any kind of french first year exam.

The American university system is much better than the Canadian. You will never see a Canadian university ranked nearly as highly as Harvard or Yale, and for a good reason. On the other hand, Canadian pre-university education appears to be quite good compared to what I have heard about America's.

Fragony 21:33 09-18-2009

@Menendil

Why would I make it up? And they were both pretty much there and I pretty much believe them, they didn't sound like the stupidest women in France.

edit: and I didn't say they never heard of Germany, I said they didn't know Germans speak German.

Rhyfelwyr 21:34 09-18-2009

I think we are a bit harsh on Americans at times. Just some random stuff off the top of my head, but I remember there was a Guardian article recently that said 4/10 Brits don't believe in evolution. Also, I remember a video where a reporter was asking some questions to French people walking about the streets, and quite a few of them thought the sun revolved around the earth.

And don't even think about asking them to point out a country on a world map.

Jolt 23:53 09-18-2009

Well to be fair I heard a story of an Irish girl who couldn't point on the map where France was. x_x

Beskar 00:03 09-19-2009

I remember watching a video where Americans pointed to Australia as being Iraq.

Evil_Maniac From Mars 00:08 09-19-2009

Originally Posted by Beskar:
I remember watching a video where Americans pointed to Australia as being Iraq.

You can find those, or similar, for almost every country. Remember also that they only show the stupidest people in the final video clips. Unfortunately, that can lead to misconceptions about some countries when people presume that the people in them are simply ignorant.

miotas 11:53 09-19-2009

Originally Posted by Beskar:
I remember watching a video where Americans pointed to Australia as being Iraq.

It was the chaser boys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ3RrqBqk14, and it wasn't iraq, but apparently iran, north korea and france are all on terra australis. Australia also has it's fair share of idiots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcBDBi5qzjc

Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat:
[...]The French holiday abroad no more than a Spaniard goes sunbathing in Greece. What for anyway? Some people are born lucky. Others have to get on a plane for it. A lifetime doesn't suffice to discover all the wonders of France[...]

I admit to having similar thoughts regarding holidays and australia.

And on the whole freedom thing, I think it's very much a matter of personal interpretation, and australia fits my personal interpretation quite well. Since moving out of home I'm hard pressed thinking of more than 1 or 2 things that I've wanted to do and not been able to, and they have been related to financial, rather than legal, restrictions

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