The education debate

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You're only pricing out the people who are barely good enough to get into university but not quite good enough to get scholarships, and you're doing it without spending a lot of tax money.

Except, that's not how it works here. I'm, frankly, quite tallented; I got nothing this year for my Master's degree.

So, learn about how much we already have to pay before you tell us how who would and wouldn't be priced out of education.

[HoreTore]

Except, that's not how it works here. I'm, frankly, quite tallented; I got nothing this year for my Master's degree.

So, learn about how much we already have to pay before you tell us how who would and wouldn't be priced out of education.

Also, this isn't just about "the best".

This is also about what society you want. Do you want one where those who already have money gets the best education, or do you want the smartest one, the most qualified one?

In my mind, it's obvious that the ones with the highest grades should get to pick first. Why do you(EMFM++) want those with money but no brains to pick first?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Except, that's not how it works here. I'm, frankly, quite tallented; I got nothing this year for my Master's degree.

So, learn about how much we already have to pay before you tell us how who would and wouldn't be priced out of education.

You think that I haven't paid for education?

This is also about what society you want. Do you want one where those who already have money gets the best education, or do you want the smartest one, the most qualified one?

That is exactly what we want, we just have a different method of assuring it. And we don't believe that everyone should be going to university.

In my mind, it's obvious that the ones with the highest grades should get to pick first. Why do you(EMFM++) want those with money but no brains to pick first?

Not what we said, was it?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You think that I haven't paid for education?



That is exactly what we want, we just have a different method of assuring it. And we don't believe that everyone should be going to university.



Not what we said, was it?

Little Catrin spent a year in Germany, she told me two things.

1. Her German was better than the natives, and

2. You guys don't get out of university until the late 20's

I'm 22, I graduate with my Masters in January. I'm already taking one year out for my PhD, but I'd like to start work before I'm 30, thatnks.

[HoreTore]

That is exactly what we want, we just have a different method of assuring it. And we don't believe that everyone should be going to university.

So why require people to have money instead of brains in order to take higher education?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

So why require people to have money instead of brains in order to take higher education?

We're not. The whole point is that the less brains you have, the more you pay.

[HoreTore]

We're not. The whole point is that the less brains you have, the more you pay.

So.....

Let's say we have two people then, the first is the 756th smartest guy with no money, the other is the 934th smartest but with lots of money.

Which one go to college? Which one should?

EDIT: Aslo, I'm completely opposed to the idea of grades and requirements anyway. To qualify for college, I had to take a some exams in order to qualify(actually all three years of high school at once, long story), which took me a year. I didn't do anything other than turning up at the exams, I didn't open any of the books or study at all. As such I did not become any smarter at all, I did not become more qualified than I was before I took them. Complete rubbish.... Also, I strongly oppose the idea of trying to get better grades. I want to learn more, I don't care what some random number says about me, somehow I think it's more important what I actually know as opposed to what grade I have...

[rory_20_uk]

So.....

Let's say we have two people then, the first is the 756th smartest guy with no money, the other is the 934th smartest but with lots of money.

Which one go to college? Which one should?

Leaving aside that University is not merely about who is smartest, but also knowledge and drive, assuming that everything else is equal and there is only one place left the 756th should be helped financially. The other can of course pay to attend just like money can purchase almost every other service in the world.

Far, far less than 50% of the population is clever. I'd estimate less than 10%.

[HoreTore]

Leaving aside that University is not merely about who is smartest, but also knowledge and drive, assuming that everything else is equal and there is only one place left the 756th should be helped financially. The other can of course pay to attend just like money can purchase almost every other service in the world.

Far, far less than 50% of the population is clever. I'd estimate less than 10%.

I have not seen one scholarship deal in the world that would help guy #756. Except in the countries where education is free.

Enjoy living in countries where your house is designed by some idiot with a rich dad. I prefer having someone with brains design it.

[Ironside]

Leaving aside that University is not merely about who is smartest, but also knowledge and drive, assuming that everything else is equal and there is only one place left the 756th should be helped financially. The other can of course pay to attend just like money can purchase almost every other service in the world.

Far, far less than 50% of the population is clever. I'd estimate less than 10%.

By the look of it, we've been past clever for several decades now. I think the frontline is called motivated nowadays (some educations excempted of course).


Anyway back to my old post. All of you didn't think I've the question without checking the OECD data first did you?

These increased fees are intended to reduce the flimsy educations to get people more motivated for "good" educations. Like the US, where the huge investment surely will make sure that only the talented ones will go to university. This method have kept the Uni number steady for the last 30-40 years, while the numbers have increased in Scandinavia and UK during this time, to the same number as in the US.

Now what number do you think that is?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

about 40%

So it will have a neglible effect on the amount of students (that will have a trend to increase anyway as Horetore noted). I get the feeling that all it will do is increasing the gap between those who can afford it (and for getting a decent job need to) and those who don't. Scholarships might help for the talented poor, but we're down to the average people now.

[Papewaio]

Far, far less than 50% of the population is clever. I'd estimate less than 10%.

But we aren't talking PhD's. A lot of what we are talking about are professional degrees where hard work and rote learning not creative intelligence is required.

After all creative accounting gets people in jail.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Let's say we have two people then, the first is the 756th smartest guy with no money, the other is the 934th smartest but with lots of money.

Universities will take the one with the better marks, student loans will be provided, he can work in the summers, and if all else fails the university will do their best to help him budget. I think you underestimate the universities which are in "evil capitalist" countries and the services they provide.