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Thread: Ethipian Agema (or Guard)
Phalanx300 17:55 09-26-2009
Originally Posted by Ludens:
Although you are correct on the Merjoz, the Ptolemaic Ethiopian guard was replaced because new evidence indicated that they were a ceremonial rather than battlefield unit. IIRC they were instituted by one of the later Ptolemean kings. As far as I know, two-handed Germanic axes are a late Viking/Saxon development, so the Merjoz unit was almost a millennium out of the timeframe.
Yes, though it was probably rarely used like the bow, it was an ordinary day tool so it was kindoff the weapon you'd only take if there was nothing better since weapons were status.

And I also asked on the TWC, you said that Germanics would also wear the Saex but I always thought it was purely a Saxon/Viking weapon. Then again its essentially an simple knife which even Germanics probably would have used as a side arm(just imagine your spear breaking).

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Ludens 18:48 09-26-2009
Originally Posted by Phalanx300:
Yes, though it was probably rarely used like the bow, it was an ordinary day tool so it was kindoff the weapon you'd only take if there was nothing better since weapons were status.
Two-handed axes are no tools, they are specialist weapons. IIRC they were mainly used by huscarles, the elite forces of Viking and Saxon warlords. For that matter normal axes weren't exactly the poor-man's melee-weapon either: medieval men-at-arms would have used one-handed war-axes next to swords, maces, etc. An axe hasn't got the reach or versatility of a sword, but it's quite handy and less likely to break.

About the saex, I can't really answer you. I think you are confusing me with someone else.

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Phalanx300 19:16 09-26-2009
Originally Posted by Ludens:
Two-handed axes are no tools, they are specialist weapons. IIRC they were mainly used by huscarles, the elite forces of Viking and Saxon warlords. For that matter normal axes weren't exactly the poor-man's melee-weapon either: medieval men-at-arms would have used one-handed war-axes next to swords, maces, etc. An axe hasn't got the reach or versatility of a sword, but it's quite handy and less likely to break.

About the saex, I can't really answer you. I think you are confusing me with someone else.

I mean that a wood cutting axe was an ordinary days weapon just like the bow, your weapon ment status.

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Kevin 19:54 09-26-2009
Wait, so noone got the idea of using 2-handed axes until the Vikings showed up?

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Aemilius Paulus 20:17 09-26-2009
Originally Posted by Kevin:
Wait, so noone got the idea of using 2-handed axes until the Vikings showed up?
Well, is it not an exceedingly arduous task to attempt to defend oneself with an two-handed axe? Spears are mentioned always breaking in the books I have read about Ancient Greece. That was a problem. Now imagine if you have no shield, ad the axe is all you have to parry blows. Not to mention, you are not fighting in a dense formation, so you have but yourself to look out for yourself. One handed-axe seems as a much more viable weapon.

Not to mention, in the Antiquity you did not have the same proliferation of maille around Germania as you did with the Norse. By the times of the Norse raiders, maille was quite common in Anglia, France, as well as in the Nordic domains. Now you needed better weapons, and the trade-off between offensive and defensive power was less unbalanced.

Or so I think. I myself am not very well informed in the Norse studies. Anything I wrote about the Norse is speculation, although the proliferation of maille was a true phenomenon.

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Ludens 11:19 09-27-2009
I am not an expert on Viking weapon-use either, but I think you are correct. In fact, there is still some debate on how these two-handed axes were used. Probably they were a team weapon, with one axe-bearer and ordinarily-equipped fighter to cover the axeman should his attack fail.

However, given the emphasis on shieldwalls in Viking and Saxon tactics, they must have been used (or at least against) dense formations.

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The General 12:20 09-27-2009
I once talked to a Viking reenactor who used an (two-handed) axe and he told that the most important thing was to keep the axe in constant motion, because if he lost momentum he was screwed. Without momentum that axe was too slow to do anything useful, or so I gathered, and thus he had to keep swinging the axe, keeping it perpetual motion and constant attack.

The best defense is a good offense, I suppose.

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