Faction Discussion thread

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Alright people so far we have 4 factions tied for first place, may as well tell each other why we chose the factions we did. And what special opportunities we may have from said factions.


So far it looks like these are the major factions we are going for.

Sweboz
Ptolemaioi
Lusotannan
Koinon Hellenon
Karthadastim
Hayasdan
Getai
Epeiros
Baktria
Arverni

the factions which have received votes.

Voice all your thoughts!

[johnhughthom]

As I already mentioned I think KH would work best. We could play it as independent cities, each with their own army, who meet up once a year to plan united actions. We start with Athens, Sparta and Rhodes, surely everybody could enjoy roleplaying somebody from one of those cities. Later Syracuse, Massalia, Emporion, Hallikarnassos, the Bosphoran cities, almost limitless scope for expansion. There would be no "faction leader" as such, the ingame FL could be played as a ceremonial title, or ignored. We would potentially be fighting numerous foes, northern Hellenes in Greece, Diadochi, barbarians (Getai to the north, Luso and Gaul if taking Massalia/Emporion), Romans and Punic if we expand to Syracuse.

Let the democratic will of the EBPBM players choose the home of democracy!

[HunGeneral]

Well I still think we should make a Karthadastim PBM.

Reasons pro:
- as a Rich Merchant, Noble (land owner) and members of a Senate we could be much more independent on several terms. (We could even attempt some corruption if we get enoug influence, management skill).
- We could elect two Soffets from among us (one would be the faction leader the other the "heir"). The candiates could use their personal fortune to bribe.... convince other senate members to vote for them.
- We could also roleplay the conflict between the Barcid and Anti-barcid parties (and maybe some could stay neutral). The Barcid will support camapign which will bring new coatel areas into the republic, while the Anti-barcids would work on gaining more land (farms and mines).

Also there is a possibility of playing as a "local king" in Iberia, Gaul or Africa depending where there is a type IV goverment - this would keep him out of the senate, but would give him free hand over his subjects and armies he could finance...

Reasons contra:
- We should think up some kind of extra names for the FMs because the Karthadastim tend to have very similar names.

Also I think we should start about 10 or maybe 20 years into the campaing? It could give more Characters and a different situation then in the Single player camaping.

Olligarchs of EB divide the power and rule the world!

[Celtic_Punk]

I think I've been sold on the Karthadast campaign. I still would like to do a Celtic or Germanic tribal one at some point though

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

yes A Gallic game would be awesome. Have to put tit on the back burner for now though.

[The Celtic Viking]

Personally, I favour the Arverni for a few reasons, but first I would like to answer the points Bean put up in the voting thread. The first one deals with the problem of having too much power in one single man, but WotB went fine and this despite the fact that - at least in game terms - he had more power than the Arverni Verrix would have, as the latter does not have the liberty to choose his own heir. This would now be decided by a vote instead.

The second objection - that the expansion opportunities are limited - I simply don't understand, as the Arverni has the option to expand literally in every direction. Just going by the voted-on list, they're better off in this regard than all except two, and no worse off than the rest (that is, the Getai and the Sweboz).

Anyway, an Arverni campaign would share much of the benefits that both the Carthage campaign and the KH one offers. Tribes instead of the cities of the KH and client rulers of the K... H... I mean, Karthadastim. Lesser kings instead of senators, martial arts instead of races, etc.

Also, the system of settling disputes through war could lead to a good amount of PvP-battles, which there were too few of in WotB, IMO.

[/Bean\]

In answer to the Karthdastim question, I feel it would be too similar to the Roman PBM, which went horribly wrong. A senate based PBM requires a large and constantly changing player base, which rarely happens.

And in response to TCV:

I don't have so much against the Arverni idea as the Aedui, but it would not get my personal vote against other factions. I may be being biased as I do not play 'barbarian' factions on EB (just not my cup of tea, to be honest), and I just never did like the idea of those guys expanding across the continent.

If you say the relationship and the power distribution wouldn't be a problem, I'll believe you. I never joined WotB so I'm not one to comment.

And last the settling disputes through war is a good idea. I just think this idea works better when we use the Sweboz/KH idea.


Right, I expect to be shot at again soon. I'll just make it clear that I will happily play any faction out of the finalists in this thread, and will leave all my doubts and whatnot behind once we decide on a faction, which ever that may be.

[HunGeneral]

Anyway, an Arverni campaign would share much of the benefits that both the Carthage campaign and the KH one offers. Tribes instead of the cities of the KH and client rulers of the K... H... I mean, Karthadastim. Lesser kings instead of senators, martial arts instead of races, etc.

Also, the system of settling disputes through war could lead to a good amount of PvP-battles, which there were too few of in WotB, IMO.

This does sound good ,but I think too many tribal conflicts would lead to civil war and the weakening of tribes. Still I think it could work (to some extent) we should however try to make every tribe have ist own army (a part of the warriors they would send to help the Verrix so max 8-10 units) they send against eachother. This however requires more organising and should be worked out better. That is something PBM veterans are more suited to do.

In answer to the Karthdastim question, I feel it would be too similar to the Roman PBM, which went horribly wrong. A senate based PBM requires a large and constantly changing player base, which rarely happens.

You have a point there. Haven’t thought on that yet (haven’t followed the roman PBM).

And last the settling disputes through war is a good idea. I just think this idea works better when we use the Sweboz/KH idea.

Settling dipsutes by the means of arms could work with many factions: Celts, Sweboz, Nomads (that reminds me how come they didn’t get any votes at all..) Lusotannan, Getai etc. etc. So I don’t think this alone should be a reason to choose the KH – besides I think the age of city-states is over and as the KH as it is would detoriate into a couple of petty kingdoms killing eachother. This is however only my own humble opinion, it could easely be unreal as I never liked the Koinon.

Right, I expect to be shot at again soon. I'll just make it clear that I will happily play any faction out of the finalists in this thread, and will leave all my doubts and whatnot behind once we decide on a faction, which ever that may be.

Well I ain't shooting at anyone (even though I keep a bow and some arrows with me all the time ).

Actually I'm glad to read what you wrote. I have a similal standing to the whole decision. I will play gladly no matter what faction will be choosen.

Right now I don't know which faction to vote for .... I will rethink the choices and sleep on it.

[The Celtic Viking]

Bean, if you don't like 'barbarian' factions there's not much I can argue against. It's something I can understand, especially as I was in that position when we started BtSH. The Romans have never been my cup of tea.

How would the despute settling through war work better with the Sweboz or KH, though? It was a pretty common practice amongst the Celts, so I can't see any historical reason for that.

This does sound good ,but I think too many tribal conflicts would lead to civil war and the weakening of tribes. Still I think it could work (to some extent) we should however try to make every tribe have ist own army (a part of the warriors they would send to help the Verrix so max 8-10 units) they send against eachother. This however requires more organising and should be worked out better. That is something PBM veterans are more suited to do.

Yes, naturally. Outright civil wars - when taken in sensible amounts - are good for the game. These conflicts would stimulate that, and that's partly the point of it, too. As long as one tribe doesn't get too strong I don't think there should be any problems.

Right, I expect to be shot at again soon. I'll just make it clear that I will happily play any faction out of the finalists in this thread, and will leave all my doubts and whatnot behind once we decide on a faction, which ever that may be.

As will I, and for the record, while I may be trigger happy, I'm always aiming at the arguments, and never at the person making them.

[johnhughthom]

If we go Arverni I must insist on one thing, TCV is not allowed to be Verrix.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Personally I am all for a barbarian game. then again I am all for any game.

I say we let the discussions go on for a few more days and have a final vote

[The Celtic Viking]

If we go Arverni I must insist on one thing, TCV is not allowed to be Verrix.

Oh, I assure you: only the unfaithful have to worry about the second coming of The King.

[/Bean\]

What are you talking about? TCV would be the best choice for faction leader, IMO. Otherwise he spends the entire game trying to destroy everything until he gets his way .

And I didn't mean no other faction would settle things with fighting. I meant the Sweboz/KH idea, where there are several factions within one, not the specific factions themselves.

I would be happy to do an Arverni one-then perhaps we can adjust the Sweboz idea to fit it. Can we organise perhaps, though, organise the idea of migrations, so that certain inter factions could leave the immediate influence of their fellow inter factions?

[The Celtic Viking]

I do like destroying things...

And I didn't mean no other faction would settle things with fighting. I meant the Sweboz/KH idea, where there are several factions within one, not the specific factions themselves.

Oh, but the Arverni are part of a confederation that they formed, so they too are "several factions within one". As are the Aedui. They are both simply the main players of their respective confederations.

Can we organise perhaps, though, organise the idea of migrations, so that certain inter factions could leave the immediate influence of their fellow inter factions?

Yes, absolutely. That's what the Arverni did when they created their confederation in the first place (minus the migration).

[/Bean\]

We settled on an Arveni one then?

[johnhughthom]

I'm all for it.

[Celtic_Punk]

Same

Roman-Slaying, Adeui-Slaying, and Tribe Slaying... I can't wait.


The problem playing Carthage and Roma would be building a big enough player base to accurately represent the senate. Since we've already played a "civilized" faction, I think we should check out some pants.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

then it looks like we have decided, mostly.



now we need the rules.

[Celtic_Punk]

Well I think we should just adjust what we've got for the Sweboz.

[/Bean\]

If you need them for reference here they are: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...=116471&page=4

(Thanks CDF)

[HunGeneral]

Alrigth I'm for ther Arverni aswell.

Roman-Slaying, Adeui-Slaying, ... I can't wait.

Can't wait fot it myself

About Rules: I don't know - most of the ones which were made on the Sweboz idea could be used, but I think a "revision" might be in order.

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

yes, a few changes and it should be similar.

[Celtic_Punk]

I still don't have a CPU that can run EB right now. I need to save up some money. But I can do forum stuff.

also bean that link doesnt seem to work

[/Bean\]

I just c&ped the one CDF gave...

I'll try myself:

Sweboz game rules

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

alright guys, we are starting to hammer out some ideas. Will get back to you all when we have something concrete.

If you have any ideas feel free to drop me a PM.

[woad&fangs]

After my KotF character dies I'll join this game. The Averni are by far my favorite faction.

[Celtic_Punk]

get some guys to come with ya. We want as many people as possible. The more people, the more battles, the more enemies, the more civilwars, the more death, destruction, pillage, rape, and destruction, and..... stuff....

[Cultured Drizzt fan]

Don't forget the Feasting