Pirate Ship Mafia [Concluded]

[DisgruntledGoat]

That's it, I officially declare that lynch the laziest, most poorly thought out vote I have ever seen in any mafia game.

Well you certainly helped by placing a somewhat random vote Diana.... Glass houses tincow. Glass houses.

FoS: Tincow

Why? You seem to care just a little too much about the way the lynch was handled. Trying to exude innocence? Have a reason to be mad that Jolt is now gone? I don't know yet. But you have my vote come the next day phase.

[Tratorix]

Well you certainly helped by placing a somewhat random vote Diana.... Glass houses tincow. Glass houses.

FoS: Tincow

Why? You seem to care just a little too much about the way the lynch was handled. Trying to exude innocence? Have a reason to be mad that Jolt is now gone? I don't know yet. But you have my vote come the next day phase.

Darn townies always trying to make us find and lynch actual suspects.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Bad logic is really hard to argue with...how do you convince someone of something that should be obvious?

LG--strong evidence of him starting the game with a group of affiliated players, and of him having something to hide. And in fact as has now been revealed, he started the game with a group of affiliated players, and had something to hide. Lynch on that basis everytime, no question.
Jolt--all evidence pointed towards him being a townie.
ANYONE else--approximately 10% chance of being mafia. Louis, I showed before that mathematically it is to the towns advantage to randomly vig kill people. That's kind of mean though. But nothing wrong with vigging or lynching suspects, you aren't going to vote no lynch are you?

[DisgruntledGoat]

Darn townies always trying to make us find and lynch actual suspects.

My point is, why is he criticizing the lynch when he offered nothing of an alternative. Except for a half hearted vote on Diana after she voted for Jolt. It reeks of someone that is trying to show how much of a townie he is. "HEY! I highly disapprove of this lynch. It was lazy and bad for the town but I didn't offer any alternative and in fact participated in the laziness by voting randomly for Diana. But I DISAPPROVE! And that means I'm nothing but an able seamen." Doesn't fly with me. Sorry.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

My point is, why is he criticizing the lynch when he offered nothing of an alternative. Except for a half hearted vote on Diana after she voted for Jolt. It reeks of someone that is trying to show how much of a townie he is. "HEY! I highly disapprove of this lynch. It was lazy and bad for the town but I didn't offer any alternative and in fact participated in the laziness by voting randomly for Diana. But I DISAPPROVE! And that means I'm nothing but an able seamen." Doesn't fly with me. Sorry.

No it's basic math. 10 % > 1%. A bad lynch is worse than a random lynch.

[TinCow]

My point is, why is he criticizing the lynch when he offered nothing of an alternative. Except for a half hearted vote on Diana after she voted for Jolt. It reeks of someone that is trying to show how much of a townie he is. "HEY! I highly disapprove of this lynch. It was lazy and bad for the town but I didn't offer any alternative and in fact participated in the laziness by voting randomly for Diana. But I DISAPPROVE! And that means I'm nothing but an able seamen." Doesn't fly with me. Sorry.

Did you bother reading any of the other 13 posts I made that day before that point, when I was trying to get information out of CDF, ATPG, and Reenk? Sorry for putting effort into getting information out of people. I'll try harder to just vote as ATPG says without comment from now on.

[Beskar]

EDIT: has Louis been cleared through investigations?

He has, from what I heard down the grapevine.

Only has been 3 people fully investigated. One by the "non-watchstander" and Pizza+Louis by Watchstanders.

Apparently the people 'running' the town seem to have forgotten that in order to win we need to lynch the starting mafioso. Lynching anyone else is a waste of time.

While I be honest, agree with this, there is also another point to consider. In a situation where we don't know who the mafiaso is, or have any good leads, killing some one like Jolt who might be a townie but really wants to work for the mafia and hindering the town, might be a good choice, opposed to some one who is completely innocent/pro-town/working for the town.

[Reenk Roink]

<- judge banging gavel

<- jury

at the people who think that I at all am going to cooperate with these dumb "pressure votes" or change my chosen playstyle this game. You can go ahead and work in these groups and try and intimidate others to follow your ideas, but I definitely put a lot more stock in my own gut and my own analysis than that of any of the vocal people in this game so far. And why should I tell you my reasons for voting whoever? Figure it out yourselves, don't be lazy, the smilies are clues enough. After all, a string of smilies is much less embarrassing (and more convincing) than the absolutely awful cases against LG, w&f, Andres, CDF, CR, and Jolt (at least CR had a detective result reason on Sigurd which we can gather info from no matter if it is right or wrong).

[DisgruntledGoat]

Did you bother reading any of the other 13 posts I made that day before that point, when I was trying to get information out of CDF, ATPG, and Reenk? Sorry for putting effort into getting information out of people. I'll try harder to just vote as ATPG says without comment from now on.

What a wonderful side step to the right. How 'bout instead of complaining about the lynch offers and claiming you've been doing your part and making token posts you offer up something substantial. You disliked the way the lynch was headed and yet instead of offering someone else, or even abstaining you vote for Diana. Which you will claim was a "pressure vote" to get her talking. Do you know what scum do? They put pressure votes on people to look like they are participating especially when they want to avoid being associated with a bandwagon.

[White_eyes:D]

They put pressure votes on people to look like they are participating especially when they want to avoid being associated with a bandwagon.

To be fair....that was an easy bandwagon to slip into.....

Most Mafia have no qualms about slipping into a monster bandwagon like that....perhaps there are other signs? Because I doubt TinCow is Mafia because of that... And if he is....He is nothing like the Mafia player I seen in Netherworld...

[TinCow]

What a wonderful side step to the right. How 'bout instead of complaining about the lynch offers and claiming you've been doing your part and making token posts you offer up something substantial. You disliked the way the lynch was headed and yet instead of offering someone else, or even abstaining you vote for Diana. Which you will claim was a "pressure vote" to get her talking. Do you know what scum do? They put pressure votes on people to look like they are participating especially when they want to avoid being associated with a bandwagon.

I fully admit that by the time I made my vote on Diana, I was too frustrated with the situation to try and create a solid case against someone else. By that point I believed that no matter what I said, the Jolt vote was going to succeed. I felt (and still feel) that there were almost certainly mafioso hiding in that bandwagon. I picked Diana because I wanted to vote for a bandwagoner to express my frustration and because I felt voting for her specifically would be the most likely way to get a reaction out of ATPG.

[Crazed Rabbit]

This ship will be run as the captain says it will be.

And I be the captain!

We will not be followin' any man and votin' based on his whims. That be no way to run a ship.

We will investigate and lynch those we find to be guilty. But I don't think lynching a man who wanted to betray us, and was helping our enemies even before that, is a very bad choice.

So I be askin ye all; who should we investigate?

CR

[Andres]

This ship will be run as the captain says it will be.

And I be the captain!

We will not be followin' any man and votin' based on his whims. That be no way to run a ship.

We will investigate and lynch those we find to be guilty. But I don't think lynching a man who wanted to betray us, and was helping our enemies even before that, is a very bad choice.

So I be askin ye all; who should we investigate?

CR

Joooray, pevergreen and CDF.

And in case it hasn't been done yet: Louis.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

joooray is basically confirmed innocent, and CDF was accused because he was suspected of having killed his partners, however one was killed by a 2 person group and the other was killed by a solo killer.

I think shlin should be investigated, and pevergreen is a reasonable choice as well.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Probably the last I'll say on the matter, as I'd like to move on-

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now that the man is dead and almost everything he said was either a joke or an outright lie, or both, and we won't know for sure if he's town, mafia, or "crazy person" role (It's entirely possible he had a role where everything he had to say was a lie or unhelpful ) for another few days, perhaps we can put this to rest. As for whether people should blindly follow what some players say, I say no... come up with suspects and judge for yourselves whether existing bandwagons are worth following. Which, I rather thought people had been doing. However, I find it slightly odd that some suggest it's bad that there's "blind" bandwagoning/following going on when attempts to get others to follow their accusations such as "my gut" and "we need a bunch of votes of this player because I said so" etc, are examples of the exact same thing. The difference is that those aren't as popular or likely to succeed, probably because the neutral observers don't see a reason why. That reason makes all the difference. I think the main complaint here is that some people's suspects aren't being treated with the same weight.

I honestly do wish we had a better suspect here and there, someone else knowing something better and more profound, leading to a better lynch than simply a townie with a penchant for lying for no reason, or perhaps the "village drunk" kind of role, who knows. But last round was filled with dead-end suspects, in my mind, and I didn't want to make a move against any of them, at least not yet. Given the lack of serious bandwagons on those suspects, there were a lot of people who would agree with me on that. When presented with at least a guy who seems to have a tongue more forked than Poseidon's trident, who admits to wanting to do whatever it takes to destroy random players, and then eventually side with the mafia, many people just happened to agree that in the absence of other better suspects, hey why not at least eliminate a pest? I note that in other games... way back in the murky history of before two weeks ago, people would suggest that random vigilante kills were a bad idea, especially if we don't know who we're hitting, in a game filled with pro-town roles. This was common sense sort of stuff and most people agreed. Some even went so far as to say a rogue vigilante is just as dangerous as the mafia we're after. And these were some good players saying this. And this rogue vigilante might even have his heart in the right place. What about one who was technically on your side, but had his heart set on killing you on purpose, for the very reason of eliminating as many as possible, so if you do eventually become mafia, you have fewer innocents to kill? It would not exactly be controversial to have this person killed.

As an example, after a few kills that looked bad in the Council of Villains, particularly one against Reenk Roink I think it was, there were calls to see our vigilante die. He was on our side at that point. In most games, the town does not allow bad kills to continue, our "side" or not. Especially if the case may be the person couldn't tell the truth to, quite literally, save his own life. Here, we might have lynched a mafioso instead. True... yes, we might have. Or just as easily killed a townie, or perhaps not even a known townie, but one who had performed a successful protection, perhaps... or one that was actively organizing protections that had worked, or perhaps one that faithfully sent in orders, leaving them vulnerable to being scanned for lies, making our work easier. Perhaps we could have lynched a watchstander or a doctor. Or maybe we could have followed Jolt and lynched our fully-investigated-as-loyal First Mate. All kinds of lovely options. And, with no firm leads on who the mafia were, that's precisely what we probably would have done. Yeah, in the first round or so we take a shot in the dark with our lynches, and hope our roles make the connections necessary to avoid being picked off early. As the game progresses, we try our best to avoid the totally random and work more on getting the mafia through deduction, reason, and evidence. In the absence of that, if you wanted to avoid hitting a good townie, you can always take out a bad one. Quite literally, one that even stated that he wanted to be bad, and was going to continue to be killing off random people until he was turned into a scumbag. Now there's some differences on whether or not it's wise to resort to lynching such a person in the absence of real leads. And we settle those differences the way we settle all our differences; by the vote. The arguments have been made, and no one has really budged on the issue. Since it's been settled by the vote and the game must go on, we should move on.

Edit: Louis said it so much more succinctly here.


And because Diana is a fellow player, if you vote for her, it will not trigger a reaction out of me such that killing pevergreen would trigger a reaction from Reenk, let's say. We express our love outside of the game, not in it. Someday I fully expect to find a knife in my back covered in lipstick kisses. I think that if either of us were mafia, we'd make sure the other was too dead to find out.

[Yaropolk]

What, couldn't put that into a shanty?

[Subotan]

So relevant, it is impossible not to post this

[Askthepizzaguy]

I admit, this pirate ship needs more dinosaurs.

[TinCow]

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Nice one TinCow!

Louis:

Why the "duel" with Kojiro? Doesn't seem quite in keeping with your usual game style.

[White_eyes:D]

@ATPG: You don't think she would try and recruit you?? I recall "inishmore" Good times..

[Subotan]

That, is one scurvy T-Rex.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ATPG: You don't think she would try and recruit you?? I recall "inishmore" Good times..

To be fair it was her very first game and her choice was designed such that someone she knew very well could walk her through the game. Everyone assumes that if one of us is mafia, the other one is. Probably the entire reason why if there's a mafia game with recruitment, we'd avoid one another like the plague if one of us is mafia.

Or maybe that's WIFOM and you should kill us both.

[White_eyes:D]

maybe that's WIFOM and you should kill us both.

Yeah sure....I will get right on it...

If I was SK...I would just leave you alive (you seem to be doing ALOT of damage to town, no offense)....if I was townie, same thing (you have been confirmed innocent by the Captain, can't see how that works) if I was Mafia, not sure what I would do....take orders I guess

"I am ed if I do, ed if I don't".....it had to happened sometime, I had too much of "good luck steak" as townie in large games lately

[pevergreen]

<- i can do that and it scares the out of people.

Investigate me? Preposterous.

I have infomation no other has.... MWHAHA HA HA HA *hack* *cough* *splutter*

mmm good luck steak. Is it beefy by any chance?

[White_eyes:D]

mmm good luck steak. Is it beefy by any chance?

Poor Beefy....never gets a break

Dedicated to Beefy

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Askthepizzaguy]

If I was SK...I would just leave you alive (you seem to be doing ALOT of damage to town, no offense)

Sure I have. Perhaps you'd care to give a damage report.

[White_eyes:D]

You lynched Jolt(bad townie) over a possible SK(me)

I can't tell you have bad that is.....If I was SK, I would be able to kill one more person...
Or you would need to waste a group in order to kill me....Personally, I don't know why you didn't push your case...(Bear in mind....I am not saying I am a SK....but it looks real bad)

[Askthepizzaguy]

You lynched Jolt(bad townie) over a possible SK(me)

I can't tell you have bad that is.....

Probably because it's completely silly. Jolt was killing townies left and right and was going to continue to do so. Your statements make no sense whatsoever.

[White_eyes:D]

Sooo...a bad townie is worse then an SK???

THAT MAKES no sense....

Jolt can't kill alone....