Shock News: Abstinence-Only Education Doesn't Work

[Banquo's Ghost]

It is valid to teach abstinence as the only method approved by most Christian denominations (actually most of the religions hew to this if I recall correctly) and as a method which virtually guarantees you cannot become pregnant, impregnate someone, or contract a STD.

Only a good Catholic could write that in the sure knowledge there is a precedent.

[HoreTore]

I hate people who wants to rob other people of their happiness.

Because that's what sex really is. It's good and healthy for both your mind and body. Learn to use the condom correctly, and it's 100% safe. My ex of 2,5 years was allergic to the pill, so I used a condom. If the condom was only 99% safe, I would be a father right now. I am not.

Also, abortion is legal. No problems.

Instead of highlighting the "risks" and "dangerous" sides, we should be talking about the healthy side of sex, and yes, we should encourage it. A healthy view on sex isn't that we shouldn't be doing it, it's that we should be doing it well.

[Fragony]

damn straight. Tell them what it is, and tell them they don't have to if they don't want to, no obligations, no rules.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Kadagar:

Your tone with issues in this vein always makes me think that your version of Sex Education would involve instruction and demonstration in proper foreplay techniques etc.

I'm probably reading too much into this.

It's a Scandanavian thing, see:

I hate people who wants to rob other people of their happiness.

Because that's what sex really is. It's good and healthy for both your mind and body. Learn to use the condom correctly, and it's 100% safe. My ex of 2,5 years was allergic to the pill, so I used a condom. If the condom was only 99% safe, I would be a father right now. I am not.

Also, abortion is legal. No problems.

Instead of highlighting the "risks" and "dangerous" sides, we should be talking about the healthy side of sex, and yes, we should encourage it. A healthy view on sex isn't that we shouldn't be doing it, it's that we should be doing it well.

Abortion is not a "quick fix" to these things. Most women who go through it are quite traumatised, and it can lead to infertility if done repeatedly, not to mention other complications.

Such things should not be entered into lightly.

[Viking]

Most women who go through it are quite traumatised[...]

Most? Are they? Source?

[AlexanderSextus]

I hate people who wants to rob other people of their happiness.

Because that's what sex really is. It's good and healthy for both your mind and body.

^^^^This.

...it can lead to infertility if done repeatedly, not to mention other complications.

My mom had 5, count em 5, before I was born. I'm here arent I?

(Yeah, My mom got busy a lot; THERE I SAID IT. So what. Not a big deal to me.)

[Kadagar_AV]

Kadagar:

Your tone with issues in this vein always makes me think that your version of Sex Education would involve instruction and demonstration in proper foreplay techniques etc.

I'm probably reading too much into this.

Interesting... What I wrote was:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

maybe if the kids were taught to put on the condoms right instead of abstinence there would be fewer cases [of teenage pregnancies]?

also, in sweden girls start using pills when they are around 15, so teenage pregnancy is rare there.

abstinence never worked, never will (never should).

Yeah, I'd say you might have read too much into what I wrote. It's not like I suggested we'd let a bartender / ski instructor girl (or a gay) show the kids how to properly put on a condom using their mouth only, is it?

You are not all wrong though, proper foreplay techniques is part of European sex education (at least scandinavian ones). Covered in biology classes... Might be good for young boys to know that there are other "buttons" than those found on a keyboard.

Might also be a good thing to explain that girls need some warm up before you go, for it to feel good for her. No. 1 complaint about american males is that they are rubbish at foreplays. This they have together with arabic males, and males from other countries who basicly have no idea how a females body works.

So instruction, yeah. Demonstration though... Dont involve me in your fantasies.

[Azathoth]

Abortion is not a "quick fix" to these things. Most women who go through it are quite traumatised, and it can lead to infertility if done repeatedly, not to mention other complications.

Such things should not be entered into lightly.

My grandma had 3 abortions between 2 kids.

[Gregoshi]

You are not all wrong though, proper foreplay techniques is part of European sex education (at least scandinavian ones)...

Well, in the World's Worst Lovers thread, the Swedes ranked in the bottom 10 due to being "too quick". Seems there is some room for improvement in your sex education program. A quickie course on sex just won't due.

[Kadagar_AV]

I'm only half swede...

I got my looks from Sweden, my skiing abilities from Austria and my way with women from Italy.

Truly I am blessed


In all fairness though... Either you guys complain I've been with too many, and now you complain that there still are unsatisfied girls left out there. There is only so much one man can do

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Wow, ok you guys were born after abortions, so obviously there are never complications! Having your insides vacumned out is not small thing, really. It can, and does, go wrong.

As to women being traumatised, seems to me quite a lot are. Just because a few women aparently aren't, doesn't make it an easy option for every woman. Stop pushing this, "one size fits all" sexuality.

[Viking]

As to women being traumatised, seems to me quite a lot are. Just because a few women aparently aren't, doesn't make it an easy option for every woman. Stop pushing this, "one size fits all" sexuality.

Vice versa; just because some women become traumatized, doesn't mean most are.

[AlexanderSextus]

No. 1 complaint about american males is that they are rubbish at foreplays.

Anything an american wants to know about sex can be found out easily. if americans suck at foreplay, then it's because they're lazy.

whatever. i know the gun's not pointed at me anyway.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Vice versa; just because some women become traumatized, doesn't mean most are.

I have yet to hear of one who is not marked by the experience in some way. That includes the artist Tracy Emin: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...s-1518934.html

[Tellos Athenaios]

Why did abortion enter into this? Anyways over here it's fairly simple: name it, talk about it in groups (not with the teacher just students), and of course the push towards contraceptives (birth control)?

Btw, condoms aren't as reliable for avoiding pregnancy as they are made out to be (mainly because they may be damaged during intercourse); it's the pill that really works. Condoms are, of course, excellent protection against STD.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Why did abortion enter into this? Anyways over here it's fairly simple: name it, talk about it in groups (not with the teacher just students), and of course the push towards contraceptives (birth control)?

Btw, condoms aren't as reliable for avoiding pregnancy as they are made out to be (mainly because they may be damaged during intercourse); it's the pill that really works. Condoms are, of course, excellent protection against STD.

Well, a Condom is just a barrier; and the pill is just a hormonal thing. All the pill does is mess with her hormonal levels, if her progesterone levels are high enough the pill flat out won't work. Of course, she'd normally need to be on a supplament to get her progesterone levels that high to begin with.

[Tellos Athenaios]

The pill ‘messes with her hormone levels’ sufficiently it typically takes a few days before her hormone levels are back to ‘normal’: which is to say the pill she took yesterday is still effective enough to prevent her pregnancy today.

[HoreTore]

I have yet to hear of one who is not marked by the experience in some way. That includes the artist Tracy Emin: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion...s-1518934.html

Name one experience in life that does not mark you one way or the other.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Sleeping. Usually. Seriously though, getting an abortion is pretty rough: I mean it's not exactly brushing your teeth.

[Kadagar_AV]

Sleeping. Usually. Seriously though, getting an abortion is pretty rough: I mean it's not exactly brushing your teeth.

That's why the pill is good...

Contrary to popular belief, I am def not a fan of abortions. It should be a last resort thing, not a mean of birth control!

However, my solution would be to stop the pregnancy before it happened, not after.

Guys, make sure to use a condom, girls (are there any here?) eat your pills.


But then again, both of the girls who have had an abortion because of me are perfectly fine, and both now has kids. So it's not like it's the end of the world. I am glad they choose the way they did!

BUT, and this is a serious "but", I would SO much have prefered if they would have been taking pills, so that this had never happened in the first place. Not just for their sake, but also for mine.

[HoreTore]

Sleeping. Usually. Seriously though, getting an abortion is pretty rough: I mean it's not exactly brushing your teeth.

Never said it was.

But it's an option in the incredibly unlikely event that birth control fails. Or to fix a drunken mistake for the more reckless ones.

And it's not like having a child or giving one up for adoption won't mark you for life either. Nobody who gets an abortion wanted to get pregnant in the first place.

And just to let you know, I never, ever have sex without a condom. I just can't do it without a condom or if I've personally seen the woman eat their pill. I'm terrified of pregnancies, and it scares away my boner. I'm simply unable to do it.

[LittleGrizzly]

I now one or two friends that have had abortions and one that had two... apart from the one not wishing to listen to the song happy brithday (a man singing about his aborted child) which is fairly understandable they all seemed to handle it fairly well...

[ICantSpellDawg]

Looks like even Texas is figuring this out:

More government money has been spent on the cause of sexual abstinence in Texas than any other state, but it still has the third-highest teen birth rate in the country and the highest percentage of teen mothers giving birth more than once.

The rate of student pregnancies in Austin high schools has increased 57 percent since the 2005-06 school year, and rates of sexually transmitted diseases are rising among Travis County teens. [...]

The abstinence-only approach to sex education, which has cost U.S. taxpayers at least $1.3 billion since 1996, has fallen out of favor in many parts of the country. Half the states had withdrawn from Title V by the time it ended in June. In other recent developments:

The American Medical Association adopted a report that found that sex education programs based on promoting abstinence produced "no delay of initiating sexual activity, no reduction in the number of sexual partners and no increase in abstinence." The AMA recommended schools use comprehensive sex education instead.

A study released by Columbia University found that earlier progress in increasing contraceptive use among teens has stalled. Another troubling trend: The CDC reported that birth rates among adolescents ages 15-19 are continuing to increase after years of decline; so are rates of gonorrhea and syphilis infection.

Raise your hand if you're surprised.

The government telling people not to have sex won't do it. Churches and Media have to take up the flag. Churches should have an easier time of discussing it than they do and Media directors need to resist the easy sell.

[Kadagar_AV]

The government telling people not to have sex won't do it. Churches and Media have to take up the flag. Churches should have an easier time of discussing it than they do and Media directors need to resist the easy sell.

Just what centuray are you living in?

"Churches" should be the ones responcible to educate? Wouldn't your post belong on the Medieval or Medieval II part of the forum?

My point being, schools should be what is educating...

if you want faith, you can go to church. "Faith" meaning you believe in some very edited old book, not "faith" as in "I have a great faith that the sun will rise tomorrow".

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The pill ‘messes with her hormone levels’ sufficiently it typically takes a few days before her hormone levels are back to ‘normal’: which is to say the pill she took yesterday is still effective enough to prevent her pregnancy today.

Not the sort of thing you should be relying upon though.

Name one experience in life that does not mark you one way or the other.

Can't. Here's a counter question, name one experience that leaves a negative mark that you'd like to repeat, or would recomend to another. Actually, name two.

Nobody who gets an abortion wanted to get pregnant in the first place.

I'm sorry, but this is FAR AND AWAY the most ignorant thing I've ever seen you write.

[Lemur]

"Churches" should be the ones responcible to educate?

Yeah, absolutely. I think you're misunderstanding what TSM was saying. He's not advocating that churches offer sex ed, rather that the moral element can only come from family, church, books, etc. It isn't the government's place to offer a spiritual or moral solution to a problem. That's a different job.

At the end of the day, if people are amoral, they cannot be governed. And one of the places morality can be imprinted is church. Not saying it's the only place, but it's an important one.

[Kadagar_AV]

I'm sorry, but this is FAR AND AWAY the most ignorant thing I've ever seen you write.

Sorry, but how was that part ignorant?

It's kind of granted that someone who has an abortion obviosly didn't want to have a child at that time...

[Lemur]

Here's a counter question, name one experience that leaves a negative mark that you'd like to repeat, or would recomend to another. Actually, name two.

1. Amateur boxing
2. Mountaineering

[Kadagar_AV]

Yeah, absolutely. I think you're misunderstanding what TSM was saying. He's not advocating that churches offer sex ed, rather that the moral element can only come from family, church, books, etc. It isn't the government's place to offer a spiritual or moral solution to a problem. That's a different job.

At the end of the day, if people are amoral, they cannot be governed. And one of the places morality can be imprinted is church. Not saying it's the only place, but it's an important one.

If you go to church to get a moral base, you have to agree on everything the church has done the last couple of hundred years or so...

And if you agree on that, I rate you at the same level as... Hmmm... I cant come up with an example.

Suffice to say, I would rate your moral lower than the lowest.

[Kadagar_AV]

1. Amateur boxing
2. Mountaineering

SKIING!!!!!!!

dont let this de-rail the thread though :(