Wrong Mathilda !!

[DEB8]

Having recently spotted some interesting comments re "Sir" Joan of Arc getting married ( !! ), I decided to take a look at the other FEMALE Hero ( Rebel ), namely Mathilda of Boulogne.

This Lady is down as the enemy of King Stephen ( of England ). However, she was in fact his Wife ( Matilda ), who even ran his army for a while whilst Stephen was a prisoner ( 1141 ) !!

The enemy of Stephen was the Empress Matilda, Grandaughter of William the Conquerer, and mother to Henry II ( of England ). She was at war with Stephen for 9 years, until she "retired" ( 1148 ), and allowed her son ( now 15 ) to take over.

Her surname is however, open to question. She was Countess of Anjou ( making her a Plantagenet ) after her second marrage in 1128, ( the first was to the Holy Roman Emperor hence the Empress title). However, as she can arrive before then, ( 1118 or so I guess), I think "de Normandie" is more appropriate. Again she should be "Matilda".
[ edited 2nd Oct.09 ]

For anyone interested, this is a straightforward addition to the CHANGES list ( in the Loc\Eng folder ).[ edited 2nd Oct.09 ]

I still do not know what happens to Matilda re marrage; does anyone know what the game does?

As for that Joan of Arc, I think she is should stay unmarried ( historical ).

[Roark]

I think this conversation/thread might be a little beyond my mental abilities...

*kills some Mongols*

[DEB8]

Re Joan of Arc & marriage ( to a woman ) in the game. This is not as daft as one might think.

Joan disguised herself as a man & many thought she was one at the time. She even led troops on the battlefield ( although the extent of any "fighting" can only be guessed at ). Offers of marriage are therefore not totally unreasonable in the circumstances. To keep up this facade, who knows what lengths the French Court would have gone to, and any "wife" would have had affairs ( as would Joan ? ) , hence children (?). As it turned out, no offers of marriage are known to have occurred and she was captured / "unmasked" after a limited career & put to death.

On a different note, "Matilda" "de Normandie" married Geoffrey of Anjou in 1128 ( aged 25/26 ) and produced a son Henry ( future Henry II of England ). So what happens to HER re marriage ( in the game ) is very important!!

Also worth noting, is that William II of England never married prior to his death aged 40, so sons & daughters prior to 1100, should NOT occur in the game. It was rumoured after his death more so than before, that William II was homosexual; however it should be noted that his brothers married at age 47 & 32 respectively. The only oddity was that he made no provision for the succession. What is the usual ( in game ) succession here?

[DEB8]

I think "de Normandie" is more appropriate. Again she should be "Matilda".

For anyone interested, this is a straightforward addition to the CHANGES list ( in the Loc\Eng Folder).

Some clarifications ( re the above ), for those who may be interested in changes :

1) Take a COPY of the exsisting CHANGES file ( as a back up ) in case of any CTD problems.
2) To create the change, you need to add five NEW lines to the BOTTOM of the file ( after creating a blank line ), as follows:

["de Boulogne"]
{"de Normandie"}

["Mathilda"]
{"Matilda"}

I cannot guarantee it will work, but this appears to be the correct way to do it. Abject apologies for any problems the previous information caused, if you have tried to change this. Apparently the NAMES file cannot be changed without causing a CTD. Also, changing the DEFAULT_HEROES list is NOT required.

[DEB8]

Further information regarding previous posts.

Please see revised ( edited ) comments ( with respect to suggested changes to the game information ).

Apologies for errors.

[Martok]

Also worth noting, is that William II of England never married prior to his death aged 40, so sons & daughters prior to 1100, should NOT occur in the game. It was rumoured after his death more so than before, that William II was homosexual; however it should be noted that his brothers married at age 47 & 32 respectively. The only oddity was that he made no provision for the succession. What is the usual ( in game ) succession here?

Well usually, William II survives long enough in the game to produce sons of his own, regardless of how (un)historical that may be. I can't remember what his oldest son's name is (I don't play as England that frequently), but I believe that's generally who succeeds to the throne.

[DEB8]

Well usually, William II survives long enough in the game to produce sons of his own, regardless of how (un)historical that may be. I can't remember what his oldest son's name is (I don't play as England that frequently), but I believe that's generally who succeeds to the throne.

I hope not! It should really be his brother, Henry ( Henry I ) who succeeds him historically. But I guess we can't have everything! Strange that Henry comes after William on the English Kings list ( on the DEFAULT_HEROES file ) though. Perhaps the "son" gets named Henry, as theres no sign of a brother at the start. I'll check tomorrow if I remember.

[DEB8]

Re William II's succession:

Well, there is definitely no brother Henry in the game at the start of the Early period for the English. Also, the two heirs at the start, ( 1087 - William aged 29 ?), are William & Alfred. Perhaps these die before William and there is a third son Henry. I guess I will find out in due course.

[gollum]

Originally posted by DEB8
Re Joan of Arc & marriage ( to a woman ) in the game. This is not as daft as one might think.

Or maybe it is?

Joan was a Saintly character that behaved as such right from the start and earned its place in the Catholic pantheon of Saints fair and square. Her chastity and mercy were legendary as well as her answers during her trial that skipped traps with such ingenuity that many of her prosecutors started being afraid that they were making a terrible mistake by convicting her.

from wikipedia;

"The most famous exchange of her trial is an exercise in subtlety.

Asked if she knew she was in God's grace, she answered: 'If I am not, may God put me there; and if I am, may God so keep me.' The question was a scholarly trap. Church doctrine held that no one could be certain of being in God's grace. If she had answered yes, then she would have convicted herself of heresy. If she had answered no, then she would have confessed her own guilt.

The author George Bernard Shaw would find the dialogue so compelling that sections of his play Saint Joan were literal translations of the trial record."

[DEB8]

Or maybe it is?

Joan was a Saintly character that behaved as such right from the start and earned its place in the Catholic pantheon of Saints fair and square. Her chastity and mercy were legendary as well as her answers during her trial that skipped traps with such ingenuity that many of her prosecutors started being afraid that they were making a terrible mistake by convicting her.

Very true.

To be honest, my idea here was more with regard to a reasonable non-historical turn of events ( as appears to be the norm in this game ). Historically, she should NOT be allowed to marry at all ( as I stated at the end of the first post in this thread ).

[gollum]

As you say, the game is just that: a game. Joan could not appear as a general unless she was a male character and it would be too much to code especially for her to prevent her from marrying. The rest is left to the imagination of the player. I understand the point and i actually enjoy having her in the campaign and the historical battles.

Just felt the need to insert my encyclopaedic note for information reasons.

[DEB8]

Joan could not appear as a general unless she was a male character and it would be too much to code especially for her to prevent her from marrying.

Shame!!

Any thoughts / information re "Mathilda of Boulogne" - same problem - but already married !?! ( Otherwise known as "Matilda de Normandie" or "Matilda Plantagenet". )