So what are your thoughts on how 1.5 is performing?

[Fisherking]

Here we are already at 1.5


Fixed a bug which which occasionally allowed factions who were not allied to be invited to join a war
Improved campaign map performance
Republics will no longer dispute a claim to a throne via a war of succession
Fixed a crash when pathfinding for embarking/disembarking
Fixed situation where balance-of-power bar on battle screen was not considering the correct set of reinforcements
Made the decision of which third-party factions can be involved in a campaign battle slightly fairer
Interceptions are no longer suppressed when blockading a port
Fixed rare crash after naval battles
Fixed rare crash caused by successful revolutionary armies containing units that were not permitted for the resulting government type
Fixed crash in AI logic structures
Reduced AI army clustering
Improved AI invasion troop movement
Various light infantry behaviour fixes
Naval and Land unit balancing
General AI improvements


Also the DLC of Warpath.

How is it working for you?

[TomPaine]

As I just posted in the bug list, um, 1.5 doesn't perform at all for me: 100 percent of the time, it crashes on the opening credits/splash screen. 1.4 ran pretty flawlessly yesterday. Sooooooo ...

[Lord Dazed & Confused]

Same here


Got it working :) it was the IS patch text pack

[TomPaine]

Hi guys -- I realized I had been using the Blood and Smoke mod, which seemed to be pretty version neutral, as no previous patch had developed any conflicts with it. But 1.5 does ... I disabled BSM, and now everything runs just fine. I played one turn; Austria offered me an alliance (I was Great Britain), which I haven't seen before ... I do miss the smoke tho.

[Quickening]

Yeah apparently the mere existence of mods causes 1.5 to crash. I don't use mods and it runs fine for me.

[Monk]

1.5 is working fine for me, as is the DLC.

Also the DLC of Warpath.

How is it working for you?

Warpath first impressions:

Decidedly average and unbalanced. The start date is 1783 but native factions (at least the Cherokee, who i played at the start) are completely outmatched technologically by the Europeans. European factions start off with colonial line fully upgraded with socket bayonets while natives have bows and arrows... As a result playing the native factions feels like playing a barbarian faction from RTW, you have to rely on numbers and rush tactics to win battles - which is very disappointing and not at all what the adviser tells you to do ("employ irregular tactics"). It feels wrong to be saddled with this kinda tech gap at such a late date.

So far Warpath is a smaller, shorter, and much more unbalanced version of the vanilla game. Lacking the option to play as the US or any of the other European factions, it feels as if the deck was purposefully stacked against you.

[Beskar]

What difficulty level did you play it as?

[Monk]

Hard campaign/Medium battles.

I think if I had put it on Hard it would have been outright impossible to win some of the early fights due to AI stat bonuses.

[Fisherking]

@ Monk

That is disappointing news about Warpath!

Maybe with a start date of 1683....it may have been a bigger tech gap but the later date most tribes had rifles and muskets to spare.

Bayonets are only good if you can close with the enemy and the tribesmen should have a speed of strike kind of factor using a tomahawk and spears and lances have a reach on a musket.

[Monk]

@ Monk

That is disappointing news about Warpath!

Maybe with a start date of 1683....it may have been a bigger tech gap but the later date most tribes had rifles and muskets to spare.

Bayonets are only good if you can close with the enemy and the tribesmen should have a speed of strike kind of factor using a tomahawk and spears and lances have a reach on a musket.

Unfortunately in a straight up fight colonial line will beat Tribesmen.

It was in fact the first battle I did, the spanish attacked one of my western provinces and I had two units of tribesman against a general, an artillery unit and one unit of line infantry.

I waited in some tree-lines where I could draw the spanish in and charged them right about as they were setting up their artillery. The AI panicked and packed it up. The first tribesmen unit attacked the general while the second attacked the Line infantry.

Line infantry fired off a volley and killed around 7 of my men, the initial shock was great for the tribesmen but they have no staying power. Line infantry beat them with 60/80 men left while my tribesmen were reduced to 30/80 and routing.

The other tribesman unit killed the enemy general on contact, but then were routed as well by his bodyguard, 35/80 and routing.

[Beskar]

I got an in interesting theory.

Maybe you are meant to lose the first battles, however with tech and other things, you can make a return. So you aren't meant to blitz in the beginning, but try to politically wangle yourself into a position where you can get your forces together to confront the european invaders.

[nameless]

Republics will no longer dispute a claim to a throne via a war of succession
?

I've always wondered about that. I mean why would a republic dispute a claim to the throne?

Unfortunately in a straight up fight colonial line will beat Tribesmen.

It was in fact the first battle I did, the spanish attacked one of my western provinces and I had two units of tribesman against a general, an artillery unit and one unit of line infantry.

I waited in some tree-lines where I could draw the spanish in and charged them right about as they were setting up their artillery. The AI panicked and packed it up. The first tribesmen unit attacked the general while the second attacked the Line infantry.

Line infantry fired off a volley and killed around 7 of my men, the initial shock was great for the tribesmen but they have no staying power. Line infantry beat them with 60/80 men left while my tribesmen were reduced to 30/80 and routing.

The other tribesman unit killed the enemy general on contact, but then were routed as well by his bodyguard, 35/80 and routing.

I always hate fighting native americans but that's because their archer units can hide and shoot while they always seem to outnumber you in most circumstances. I'd rather fight with Euro factions than them.

From what you're seeing I'm guessing they rebalanced it in favour of the colonials? Natives shouldn't have an issue in hand-to-hand combat (They always best me in those fields)

One thing I noticed in your description however was that you didn't have a general in your army. You just had a captain vs. an actual general which probably made a difference.

[Fisherking]

1783 most of the Eastern Tribes should have riflemen by then and not have to close with any line units. The British, French, & Americans had been trading guns for furs for close to 100 years by that time.

The Europeans should also be relying mostly on militia and irregulars. Line infantry should be a huge exception.

[Quickening]

Okay after a few hours play I can say that the game does indeed seem to run far more smoothly on the campaign map. But you still have to turn path markers and target zones off in each and every sea battle. Does anyone know a file I can edit to just get rid of them permanantely?

[Slaists]

I fought one battle as France against Iroquois Indians. Battle AI demonstrated vividness not observed before. I was the attacker but had artillery on my side. After some pounding the AI's troops advanced (as usually happened). However, this time, they also performed some several false retreats + flanking moves and charged their cavalry at very reasonable targets. The battle chance bar showed fair chances for the AI up to the point when my reinforcements joined the thick of the battle.

[antisocialmunky]

I've seen them do that in 1.0. Did they just run back and forth or do something original and intellegent?

[peacemaker]

:( no multiplayer campaign yet....sigh....

Anyway it sounds like this patch is just evening out 1.4. It sounds nice, although it looks like it was a good idea not to spend my $10 on Warpath since I need to buy a few others games

[Durallan]

the mutliplayer campaign comes out before the release of NTW.

[Slaists]

Well, at least the fort battles (when the player is defending) are as retarted as they ever were. The AI is still blindly determined to take the "magic flag" regardless of the odds (near the flag)... Basically, forts are a big mouse traps for the AI with the "magic flag" serving the function of a big piece of cheese...

As to the walls: they're as useless as they were before. The cannons cannot hit anything despite starting to shoot at longer distances. So, the player has to resort to the "mouse trap" tactics on the ground level.

[Slaists]

I've seen them do that in 1.0. Did they just run back and forth or do something original and intellegent?

No, this time, they ran a bit back, regrouped (in a good manner actually) got reinforced by the bowmen who were hiding in the bushes and charged back in.

[antisocialmunky]

Screenshots or replays next time please. :)

[Slaists]

Screenshots or replays next time please. :)

Yeah, I know. Need to learn to use that fraps ap. that I'm running in the background.

On a different note:

1. Diplomacy is still crap.

2. The Black knight syndrome is still present. Playing as France, Wurtemberg declared war in turn 4 or 5, while being able to field just a couple militia units. Fine, I destroyed the milita and offered them piece while my full stack was standing right next to the city. My offer was discarded as a grave insult to a "glorious nation". Fine, I captured Wurtemberg and decided to build it up a bit before attempting to trade it to Westphalia in exchange for protectorate agreement. As soon as the turn was over, my friendly neighbor Bavaria declared war. In disgust I reloaded an autosave and gave Wurtemberg to my enemies: the Innuit...

3. Fort battles are still retarded.... The wall cannons cannot hit anything despite starting to shoot much earlier than pre-1.4. As to "improved pathfinding": the AI is still hell bent on capturing the "magic flag". So, as far as a player defending a fort is concerned, the best defense is organizing a mouse trap around the town square and shooting the flag-hunters to pieces same as it was since the release of the ETW.

4. Cavalry's charge does not seem to break in bushes and trees. This was a 'feature' introduced already in 1.4. Cavalry seems to be able to "send the troops flying" even when running through trees.

5. The chain shot rules the high seas. Chain shot still has 100 more range than the round shot. Tip for the players: do not build anything higher than 5th rates (and even those are a waste). 6th rates and sloops are fully capable of demasting and subsequently destroying fleets of 2nd rates.

6. Choppy battle map: scrolling of the battle map is back to what it was before 1.3 - choppy as hell... Selecting a fleet at times results in 2-3 minute long map freeze same as it was before 1.3. Note that in 1.3 neither of these problems were present (at least for me).

There are good things too, but, in balance, CA'ers have managed to break as many things as they fixed...

[Owen Glyndwr]

So it sounds to me like CA took a big step forward with 1.4, and two big steps back with 1.5. Is this true? I really hope not, as I was finally considering ETW stable enough to consider buying.

[Grombeard]

For Slaists' points 1 and 2 i think the difficulty setting is why diplomacy is still "broken" for him. I bet he's playing on VeryHard campaign AI. I play Hard and i get way better results, no suicide nations and i can make peace deals if i am clearly stronger than my enemy.

For point 3 i too see a BIG improvement since 1.4 which is still there in 1.5. The cannons on the wall now work properly and while not killing entire squads, they do make a 120-men line infantry unit a 100-men line infantry unit which is a big advantage when they climb up the walls. And my men can shoot over the walls with their guns now, so defending a fort now really IS an advantage over fighting in the field. Also i cannot confirm that the enemy rushes straight to the center flag. I just had a defensive fort battle where the britains even attacked from multiple sides, opening the opposing sides fort doors so that their cavalry could come in.

Points 4 and 5 doesn't really bother me. Chain shot really is stronger since 1.4 but i think its okay. For me the sea battles play a lot more fluent and comprehensible.

Point 6 works perfectly on my pc. I play on relatively slow graphical settings but everything works great that way. No scroll-lagging and such...


So for me 1.5 is great so far and further improves the "tide-turner" patch 1.4. ;)

[Slaists]

For Slaists' points 1 and 2 i think the difficulty setting is why diplomacy is still "broken" for him. I bet he's playing on VeryHard campaign AI. I play Hard and i get way better results, no suicide nations and i can make peace deals if i am clearly stronger than my enemy.

For point 3 i too see a BIG improvement since 1.4 which is still there in 1.5. The cannons on the wall now work properly and while not killing entire squads, they do make a 120-men line infantry unit a 100-men line infantry unit which is a big advantage when they climb up the walls. And my men can shoot over the walls with their guns now, so defending a fort now really IS an advantage over fighting in the field. Also i cannot confirm that the enemy rushes straight to the center flag. I just had a defensive fort battle where the britains even attacked from multiple sides, opening the opposing sides fort doors so that their cavalry could come in.

Points 4 and 5 doesn't really bother me. Chain shot really is stronger since 1.4 but i think its okay. For me the sea battles play a lot more fluent and comprehensible.

Point 6 works perfectly on my pc. I play on relatively slow graphical settings but everything works great that way. No scroll-lagging and such...


So for me 1.5 is great so far and further improves the "tide-turner" patch 1.4. ;)

Nope, that campaign I played on the Hard setting, not Very Hard. I replayed that turn in which, after annihilating Wurtembergian army, I offered them different peace deals. In all the replays except one, I got foam-mouthy refusals. The exception was: I offered them to become my protectorate in exchange for all the cash I had at the beginning of the turn. The reply I got: we'll become your protectorate IF you give us New France!... Right... A brilliant diplomatic maneuver when a full stack of French line infantry is standing right next to Wurtemberg's capital and they have no troops left.

For the forts: I'm surprised so many people mentioning the AI attacking the fort from different sides as being an achievement of 1.4/1.5. The AI definitely WAS doing that in 1.3. Whenever the AI had sufficient manpower they came down from all the ramps (and doors). The problem was, the AI's units that hit the wall first, would be coming down first while the rest of their troops would be marching along the walls towards the back of the fort. The AI is still doing the same in 1.5 and that makes the mouse-trap possible. The player has to arrange his troops in such a manner that the AI has free access (while being shot at) to the "magic flag" from all the ramps and all the doors. By the time the AI units reach the flag (piecemel), they're already wavering or routing. Unfortunately, this definitely is still the most efficient use of forts for defense.

As to the chainshot: last night I annihilated (captured actually) the whole Dutch fleet (a 5th rate, several 6th rates, several Fluyts + some brigs) with a single 5th rate while getting only one cannon knocked out on my ship. I never had to touch the 'round shot' option. That's the same kind of CA's "battle fluency" that allows sailing ships to cruise against the wind.

As to campaign map choppiness: I have a great, new rig and I play on all ultra settings, except the unit size which I have on large. But that's not the point. I played on the same ultra settings in 1.3 and NOTHING was choppy... 1.4 erased some of the cross cpu optimization (and potential move area calculation) that was fixed wonderfully in 1.3...

[Fisherking]

On hard setting the AI still won’t take peace unless you have destroyed every unit it has and have the city besieged...and even then it is likely to die.

The game is still a challenge on the normal setting and about as hard as M2TW got when you are just playing on easy.

I have not gotten to what has been broken.

If you are fighting now with chain shot it is pretty much as it was in the pre 1.4 versions.

I have had limited play in 1.5 but what I have seems challenging and improved even over 1.4.

There may be things to be discovered but this is not the wreck it was.

[Grombeard]

@Slaists: Okay, you're right on the CAI... Maybe it was because as sweden i don't share much border with other countries at first and so i couldn't see what the AI is doing, but now that i have expanded my empire much further, more and more countries all gang up on me, just because i suddely share borders... And my allies, france and ottomans, both rich and powerful, leave my alliance as soon as I get a new DoW, even if its from prussia thats far from a big nation in my game... I must say, i'm quite disappointed, because i had those good experiences in the beginning. But now i think about playing M2TW again, maybe some kingdoms-campaigns that i have left out yet. Those were much more fun and even the battles were harder, because it wasn't that easy to outmaneuver/surround the enemy... :( I still think the BAI in Empire is not that much of a problem, but well, most of the game is on the map and the CAI disappoints me more and more the longer i play on a campaign... :(

[nameless]

Nope, that campaign I played on the Hard setting, not Very Hard. I replayed that turn in which, after annihilating Wurtembergian army, I offered them different peace deals. In all the replays except one, I got foam-mouthy refusals. The exception was: I offered them to become my protectorate in exchange for all the cash I had at the beginning of the turn. The reply I got: we'll become your protectorate IF you give us New France!... Right... A brilliant diplomatic maneuver when a full stack of French line infantry is standing right next to Wurtemberg's capital and they have no troops left.

For the record minor factions are techincally "aggressive Grey rebels" from MTW2 and RTW. They are set to attack the player regardless.

Over at TW forums there's a guy who made a mod that changed minor factions into major factions and by treating them the same (Maintaining a good army within your home terrority) kept them from declaring war. Thus, we think it's a game design decision, not something "broken"

Or if you ally with someone like Poland, their protectorates will NOT attack you.

As to campaign map choppiness: I have a great, new rig and I play on all ultra settings, except the unit size which I have on large. But that's not the point. I played on the same ultra settings in 1.3 and NOTHING was choppy... 1.4 erased some of the cross cpu optimization (and potential move area calculation) that was fixed wonderfully in 1.3...

What about shadows?

[Claudio]

I think I am finally content with the AI with this new (1.5) patch. I began a new campaign as my favourite faction, Austria. I went through all the usual motions. Bought plug bayonets off of Prussia for 5,000 florins, requested trade rights with all factions I hope to stay friendly with for the entire game, shuffled my ministers, disbanded the Pandours, who aren't worth a damn in any way, shape or form, shared plug bayonets with all of France's future enemies and my faithful Bavarian allies, and ended my turn.

The Ottomans, as usual, declared war on me, and sent a few small armies toward Transylvania. They took it for 1 single turn, but my army of militia, pikemen and my Turk hating general took it back. They have made no more attacks since, and it is now 1704.

Prussia declared war out of the blue, but there was no action for 3 years. They have taken Gdansk from Poland, and wiped out Saxony. They just took Silesia before I saved my game and quit to make this post, but I have a large army of line infantry at the ready to take it back with all haste.

The part that impresses me most is as follows. Poland, obviously, hate Prussia. When the campaign began, they weren't too friendly with me either, and I imagined we would soon be at war, but when Prussia took out their protectorate, Saxony, and garrisoned it with almost a full stack of that scary Prussian line infantry, Poland came to me with their hat in their hands and offered me a military alliance. I checked to see if such an alliance would conflict with any of my interests, and Poland is at war only with Prussia, and since I am at war with Prussia, I accepted, and begun trading with them. I noticed at this point that my relations with Russia had gone from neutral to friendly, so in the same turn I offered them an alliance too, since we share a common enemy in the Ottoman empire. To my surprise, they accepted. I took Moldavia from the Ottomans so I could begin trading with my new allies.

The AI, perhaps through sheer coincidence, perhaps knowingly, has formed with me an alliance of 3 major nations, all neighbours, all with common enemies, against the aggressive, expansionist Prussians, and the Ottomans, who I have done the Russians a favour in taking Moldavia from the Ottomans, thus depriving them of making any aggressions upon Russia without first going through me.

What I have in this campaign, I have never been able to achieve in Empire until now. I have a perfect balance of action, with 2 major nations at war with me, and diplomacy, with Poland and Russia allying with me, and Bavaria being my protectorate. I plan on taking Saxony from the Prussians and giving it to Bavaria, which would take the strain off of myself by turning Bavaria into a semi-major nation on the border with Prussia, who they are at war with.

The AI hasn't been without it's idiocy though. In 1703, for some unknown reason, Poland declared war on New Spain. Aside from that, so far so good.

[hoof]

I'd have to agree with Claudio. So far the AI is working well, given the enormous set of expectations and requirements imparted upon it. 1.3 was a low point (mostly because of the irritating DoW's that wrecked the diplo side of things). So far (speaking for 1.4 mostly, but also with a few turns of 1.5) the AI has acted sanely, including offering peace on more than on occasion (but usually demanding a territory in return). I was even able to buy two of the three territories I needed for Louisiana (as the French) from the US. Kind of a reverse-Louisiana Purchase!

But in all seriousness, ETW has finally reached it's potential, at least to me. I just hope it isn't too late for the franchise (judging from that blog in the other thread, it might be).