The Mongols did NOT depend on numbers. In every major battle from China to Hungary they were outnumbered by their enemies. Superior generalship, discipline, mobility, and firepower allowed them to annihilate larger armies every time.
The Mongols did NOT depend on numbers. In every major battle from China to Hungary they were outnumbered by their enemies. Superior generalship, discipline, mobility, and firepower allowed them to annihilate larger armies every time.
Just an old-fashioned cowboy.
The Mongols. As the most successful steppe confederacy they have to be first. The Spartans might have been feared but only by other warriors, the only populace to fear them were their own helots. The Vikings were certainly feared but until their later, larger invasions you were safe in a fortified, garrisoned city. You were never safe from the Mongols. They were masters of the battlefield and inspired terror over an immense area.
NinjaKiller: The source material is scarce for the 'cause' of the viking raids but I think it was a mixture of climate, geography, and culture.
A warmer climate in Scandanavia increased agricultural production and boosted population.
Relatively wealthy, settled societies had established themselves just over the horizon and contact with them brought the desire for more goods to be gained through trade or other means.
These settled areas were easily reached/plundered from the sea with the longboat, which come to think of it, should be a fourth technological factor.
Lastly, a chieftans power came from the size of his warrior band, and this could only be maintained or increased by the plunder he could provide. A successful raider would attract followers and power.
A simplistic overview but I think it generally correct.
He moves, you move first.
Why did they lost Outremer then? Its because their stupidity and Saladins brillant tactics.Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (ShadeFlanders @ Dec. 03 2002,02:56)]At the time it wasn't stupid: the egyptian army had never been in a battle situation before, the crusaders were all hardened veterans. Furthermore the Egyptians had never heard of couched lance charges which is very scary. They just started running after impact.
The crusaders were no tactical imbiciles, after the muslems got used to couched lance the balance evened out a bit but the crusaders started changing their tactics too. Horse archers were starting to be used and disciplined spear formations were also used (as oppposed to european armies). Also head-on knight charges were no longer used, the crusaders used an infantry screen to block arrows and light cavalry which opened up for the knights when the charge would be most effective. So you see they were in no sense stupid,though the crusaders that had just arrived from Europe thought of these tactics as unhonourable and refused to use them, they were stupid.
Furthermore it was a disastrous and utterly dumb decision by the templar grand master that directly led to the defeat at Hattin (and the destruction of Outremer).
So you see your statement that the crusaders were dumb and Saladin was the only one with good tactics is incorrect.
But if the crusaders were as 'stupid' as you said then Saladin wouldn't have needed to use 'brilliant' tactics.
Just like Dojorat doesn't even have to use a 'complicated' explanation to confue you
Look what these bastards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon Phil Bennett's pre 1977 Rugby match speech
Whoops, sorry Shade....just indulging in a little English custom....taking the piss
Dum spiro spero
A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
- William James
In the spirit of the Red Peasant, if I can mention a British Regiment that appears to have been overlooked - 'The Devils in skirts'
regimental history page:
http://www.carryonline.com/carry/cokhyber.html
The Burpers certainly didn't like it up 'em.
edit: forgot to mention that they are on the official register as the 3rd Foot & Mouth.
10 kb max.
Hey, I resemble that remark
He moves, you move first.
Battlefield ninja.
Screw luxury; resist convenience.
That's a very simplistic way of looking at it.
Particularly seeing as though Saladin died before Outremer was finally lost.
I think a bigger problem was that after a crusade had lost it's impetus, a lot of troops would go home leaving undermanned garrisons behind.
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.
Hah, another English custom...taking the piss out of ourselves
Dum spiro spero
A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
- William James
Just was watching a documentary about two SO4 operatives that were released from one of the concentration camps. They said they d been back in England couple of days and were walking down the street in uniform when a funeral procession went past. The guy being interviewed said that they just couldn't help bursting out laughing. He said: 'All that trouble for one dead... if we didn't laugh we would have never stopped crying'.
Thats the spirit Ah how lucky we are to be BRITISH
They don't like it up 'em
He used good tactics but the crusaders were stupid and almost gave him the victoryQuote[/b] (monkian @ Dec. 03 2002,13:10)]But if the crusaders were as 'stupid' as you said then Saladin wouldn't have needed to use 'brilliant' tactics.
Just like Dojorat doesn't even have to use a 'complicated' explanation to confue you
So even though the crusaders were 'stupid' he didn't actually win ?
Look what these bastards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon Phil Bennett's pre 1977 Rugby match speech
Ofcourse he won
You said they almost gave them victory.
Look what these bastards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon Phil Bennett's pre 1977 Rugby match speech
Yes but he was the one who fooled them so the crusaders lost but the crusaders were the stupid one who let themself to be fooled.Quote[/b] (monkian @ Dec. 04 2002,12:34)]You said they almost gave them victory.
[QUOTE=[b]Citaat[/b] (Xer0 @ Dec. 04 2002,21:55)][quote=monkian,Dec. 04 2002,12:34]Yes but it was the Templars that were so stupid as to give the advice to march through the desert. And the king at the time also wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. But this was only at one time. Furthermore Saladin nearly got his head handed to him on a plate a few years earlier at the battle of Montgisard (11 november 1177) where a handfull of knights sent his entire army running, Saladin barely escaped with his life.Yes but he was the one who fooled them so the crusaders lost but the crusaders were the stupid one who let themself to be fooled.
Proud member of Clan Shades and the OOOO
---------------------
The Belgian army is on the march May the Earth tremble with Beer... euh, Fear.
[QUOTE=[b]Quote[/b] (ShadeFlanders @ Dec. 05 2002,03:38)][quote=Xer0,Dec. 04 2002,21:55]It was the templars who won at Mont GisardYes but it was the Templars that were so stupid as to give the advice to march through the desert. And the king at the time also wasn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. But this was only at one time. Furthermore Saladin nearly got his head handed to him on a plate a few years earlier at the battle of Montgisard (11 november 1177) where a handfull of knights sent his entire army running, Saladin barely escaped with his life.
Yes (mostly) but it was Saldadin that lost at Montgiskard.
So what can we conclude:
Templars weren't tactically infallible, nor were they idiots (most of the time)
Saladin wasn't tactically infallible, nor was he an idiot.
And finally the "normal" knights in outremer were not tactically infallible but nor were they idiots
Proud member of Clan Shades and the OOOO
---------------------
The Belgian army is on the march May the Earth tremble with Beer... euh, Fear.
We can make a list of the them and the best comes first.
1. Saladin
2. Templars
3. Crusader knights
I'm gonna leave this to the Saladin fan-boy.
Look what these bastards have done to Wales. They've taken our coal, our water, our steel. They buy our homes and live in them for a fortnight every year. What have they given us? Absolutely nothing. We've been exploited, raped, controlled and punished by the English — and that's who you are playing this afternoon Phil Bennett's pre 1977 Rugby match speech
None mentioned Rome's Legions although I'm not sure about how feared they were.
For my choice, I have to say modern soccer fans.
Skill counts for nothing when an angel pees down the touchhole of your musket. - Anonymous soldier.
Saladin is a better example of a good ruler than a good general . He was certainly more honourable and chivalrous than the crusaders .
If you talk to an Arab about the crusades , the name they bring up as their champion is not Saladin , but Baybers
Baybers was rather like Richard the Lion Heart and that Baldwin {they sure breed at lot of them don't they} fellow ... pure killing machine . Saladin really was a good ruler doing his best {fairly successfully given the circumstance} to hold his "faction" together ; he was not equipted however to defeat the crusaders ... Baybers most certainly was
Also , the crusaders were not stupid Xer0 , they were psychotic ; there is a differance you know .
7 out of 10 people like me ,
I'm not going to change for the other three .
Hey
Don't forget the Blackfoot "Crazy Dog" warriors.....None of the Plains Indians would mess with the Blackfoot....and the US had to use smallpox to get them weakened....By far the toughest and most feared of all the Indian Nations
Watashiwa Yagyu Jubei desu Ganbate
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