The State of Naval Combat in 1.5

[Fisherking]

Chain Shot is not the power it was and it takes for ever to do damage to enemy ships even on a rake, and that is making sure they have sails deployed and not shooting at them heading up wind...

I had a battle I would have easily won in 1.3.1 and slaughtered them in 1.4 but it was a very close engagement...and I don’t get many of those anymore.

My fleet was 2 5th rates, 1 6th rate ,and 2 sloops. The French fleet was 1 5th rate, 3 6th rates, and 2 sloops. The battle was set to normal and the time was 1 hour.

The effect of chain was minimal. It degenerated into broadsides of round shot or grape shot. I lost my admiral’s flagship sunk. One of my sloops was taking water and the other had routed. I did capture the whole fleet but repairs were steep and I had to make up my loss by keeping the French 5 rate.

Naval battles are back to what they were pre 1.4. The improved accuracy and the longer range of the light vessels does not seem to play a huge role.

I would guess that chain shot is only about 1/10th as effective as it was in 1.4. It may be less effective than it was in 1.1 or 1.2. The guns are all less powerful also so it all has a definite effect.

[Slaists]

Hmm. We must be playing different games then. I captured the whole Dutch fleet (a 5th rate, 3 6th rates, 2 Fluyts, 3 brigs and a couple sloops) with a 5th rate yesterday just using the chain shot. My 5th came out with barely a scratch (1 cannon lost).

[Fisherking]

That was my experience in 1.4. I had one sloop capture an 8 ship fleet of brigs, sloops and Indiamen.

In 1.5 I have fought several battles and yes I have always used chain shot to defeat the enemy and get the cash, but it is much less effective.

About 3 volleys were enough to cripple most ships in 1.4. I poured on 3 ship multiple volleys and they were still sailing. Meanwhile I was losing guns to round shot.

Sloops don’t last long in this environment either. A good broadside from a 6th rate will take out 4 to 6 guns.

In some ways it is easier to fight with one or two ships than it is with half a dozen. Just be advised that things are different.

But hay! don’t take my word for it, go in and try it out.

[Slaists]

That was my experience in 1.4. I had one sloop capture an 8 ship fleet of brigs, sloops and Indiamen.

In 1.5 I have fought several battles and yes I have always used chain shot to defeat the enemy and get the cash, but it is much less effective.

About 3 volleys were enough to cripple most ships in 1.4. I poured on 3 ship multiple volleys and they were still sailing. Meanwhile I was losing guns to round shot.

Sloops don’t last long in this environment either. A good broadside from a 6th rate will take out 4 to 6 guns.

In some ways it is easier to fight with one or two ships than it is with half a dozen. Just be advised that things are different.

But hay! don’t take my word for it, go in and try it out.

I've noticed that point about one ship versus many. That's why I usually sail my weaker ships around in support role, why my main ship leads the AI's fleet on a geese chase across the sea. Maybe 1.4 and 1.5 have slowed down the turns, but it's still possible to swing to side, unload a salvo of chainshot and continue "fleeing" while remaining out of round-shot range. This kiting 'tactic' was way harder to pull off in 1.3 when chain-shot had range disadvantage versus the round shot (as it should have).

[Slaists]

That was my experience in 1.4. I had one sloop capture an 8 ship fleet of brigs, sloops and Indiamen.

In 1.5 I have fought several battles and yes I have always used chain shot to defeat the enemy and get the cash, but it is much less effective.

About 3 volleys were enough to cripple most ships in 1.4. I poured on 3 ship multiple volleys and they were still sailing. Meanwhile I was losing guns to round shot.

Sloops don’t last long in this environment either. A good broadside from a 6th rate will take out 4 to 6 guns.

In some ways it is easier to fight with one or two ships than it is with half a dozen. Just be advised that things are different.

But hay! don’t take my word for it, go in and try it out.

OK, after having a few more naval battles in 1.5 I have to agree with you. The chain-shot has been downgraded from what it was in 1.4. It's much less accurate (probably they upped the dispersion factor for it). Nonetheless, the range advantage over the round shot is still there, so it is possible to dominate naval battles with chain shot also in 1.5. It just takes more time now.

[A1_Unit]

Every time I board a ship in 1.5 it catches on fire! You know what happens next.

[Slaists]

Every time I board a ship in 1.5 it catches on fire! You know what happens next.

hmm. never happens to me. then again, i rarely board unless i've destroyed most of the enemy ship's guns.

[Fisherking]

I have noticed a lot more fires in 1.5.

They are not readily being put out either. It is taking time to get it under control and it looks like you may need to come up into the wind. As long as I was moving, even with the fire at will turned off, it kept burning. It didn’t stop until I turned into the wind and anchored.

I had a fight with the Pirates and both my ships were on fire at the same time. It got pretty hairy for a while. The battle even went over the time limit! But I was in a little better shape by then.

[Hermann the Lombard]

This kiting 'tactic' was way harder to pull off in 1.3 when chain-shot had range disadvantage versus the round shot (as it should have).

In 1.3 (or at least in 1.3.1) the range of round and chain shot were identical (400) and similarly long-range round and chain were identical (500). The same was true for carronades (at 300).

[peacemaker]

I've noticed a solid 50% of the time-if not more- my sloops always get destroyed. I started a pirates campaign and emptied several broadsides of grapeshot into an old 5th rate, and sent my sloop to capture it. It pulled up alongside the enemy ship...and the other ship unloaded a broadside exploding my sloop. At least they all burned to death for damaging my ships AND in a giant fireball!

I haven't really noticed a decrease in chainshot effectiveness, because of 1 or 2 things:

1)I rarely pay attention to these little details

2)I always use ships with 8459238534 cannons so I'm bound to do a decent amount of damage

[Fisherking]

Ships with a range of 500 (I think this only applies to chain shot):

Sloops, Brigs, Race Galleon, Xebec, 6th rate, Admiral’s 5th rate, & 5th rate. Why the Razee, the 24lb frigates, and the Constitution don’t have that range is a little odd.

Bomb Ketches and Rocket Ships have 750 range with 60% & 40% accuracy respectively.

Too bad mortars are not that good on land.

Steamships and Carronade Frigates have a range of 300.

In 1.5 First Rates have stronger fire power and the Constitution has a bit more but so far as I have seen fire power for the others is unchanged from 1.4. (that in its self was a large change but I lack the data for previous versions)

[Discoman]

Yesterday I found out that my 2nd of the line, and 1st of the line had like 30% accuracy. A Booooo

So that pretty much means that 30% of my 100 guns will hit. I might aswell get 4th and 5th rates instead.

[Fisherking]

I would say 3rd rates but the first rate has a firepower factor of 2490 so one hit could be pretty devastating. That is about 1100 more than the 3rd rate has with 40% and the 5th rate’s firepower is 590 with a 60% chance to hit.

Still, I would rather they have more historic values than game balancing numbers.

[antisocialmunky]

I wouldn't mind if it was somewhere in between, otherwise its too gamey.