Shalom, Mr Ahmadinejad

[Vladimir]

A.K.A. the ones who have America to thank for their survival? USSR primarily won the war, and I doubt anyone in the Backroom will seriously debate that. Even Churchill conceded to that - I forgot the exact quote, but the was saying how Russia was bled white by the Allies, who let the Soviets do the vast majority of the work.

Do I even have to mention the mostly fourth rate troops that the Germans stuck in the Atlantic Wall? The former Polish and Russian POWs? The crippled former front-lien troops? The older-aged recruits in their forties and fifties? That was what the Normandy invasion forces initially fought against. Especially the first category surrendered in droves. Those Russians and Poles may have hated Stalin, but they had little or no quarrel with the Western Allies. They would have been more useful fighting the Soviets...

Oh please. You guys were too busy fighting off the Mongols to be of any real help.

[Aemilius Paulus]

Oh please. You guys were too busy fighting off the Mongols to be of any real help.

Gah, do you not think this thread already has enough trolling to try to pull one off yourself?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Back to Ahmadinejad et al. please.

If you simply must bait A.P. this way regarding WW2, please do so in the Monastery, where he can: a) defend the honor of the Rodina using all the historical evidence he wishes, and
b) some other moderator has to deal with it.

Thanks!

[LittleGrizzly]

This is possibly a little tangent off the direct topic of conversation but I believe its related to the conversation at large...

I know exactly what the shah was and that was a friend to America in a place where friends are hard to come by.

Aside from Israel (we'll put that to the side for the moment) why do you think America is so hated in the ME, because of support for tyrants like the Shah (which incidently you/we otherthrew a democratic goverment to install)

If your going to constantly think like that, us vs them, then you are constantly going to make policy which makes them even bigger enemies, rather than trying to work past your differences your continuing the conflict with your attitude.

The reason you have hardly any friends in the middle east is because you go around pissing people off, the peoples off the middle east didn't declare you an enemy when your country formed, its your actions over the years that caused you to become the enemy. Continuning such actions now, because they are now your enemies is going to do nothing to reverse the course you set yourself

Russia did most of the work in WW2 (against the nazis at least) anyone who says differently is a troll or doesn't know WW2...

[Strike For The South]

This is possibly a little tangent off the direct topic of conversation but I believe its related to the conversation at large...

Aside from Israel (we'll put that to the side for the moment) why do you think America is so hated in the ME, because of support for tyrants

When that's all you have to choose form in the region it's slim pickings cowboy.

like the Shah (which incidently you/we otherthrew a democratic goverment to install)

I'm fully aware we overthrew a government but we can't go back and change that.

If your going to constantly think like that, us vs them, then you are constantly going to make policy which makes them even bigger enemies, rather than trying to work past your differences your continuing the conflict with your attitude.

The reason you have hardly any friends in the middle east is because you go around pissing people off, the peoples off the middle east didn't declare you an enemy when your country formed, its your actions over the years that caused you to become the enemy. Continuning such actions now, because they are now your enemies is going to do nothing to reverse the course you set yourself

I support the libreals in Iran and until they get into power I would like to make dinnerjackets life as hard as possble. But make no mistake we pull out of the ME tmrw and people will still hate us. We are past the point of no return with a majority of these people. I'm fully aware that we did some BS to start but it's useless to go back and say "THIS IS WHYYYYY" without offering anything else.

Russia did most of the work in WW2 (against the nazis at least) anyone who says differently is a troll or doesn't know WW2...

Pappy fought in the pacific.

[LittleGrizzly]

When that's all you have to choose form in the region it's slim pickings cowboy..

Well Im sure theres loads more reasons than that some of which I can't think off but thier support for unpopular tyrants has certainly been one of them

I'm fully aware we overthrew a government but we can't go back and change that.

I support the libreals in Iran and until they get into power I would like to make dinnerjackets life as hard as possble. But make no mistake we pull out of the ME tmrw and people will still hate us. We are past the point of no return with a majority of these people. I'm fully aware that we did some BS to start but it's useless to go back and say "THIS IS WHYYYYY" without offering anything else.

I really doubt there is such a thing as being beyond the point of no return. Germans and Jews can talk to each other today, Russians and Germans also... sure that may have took some time, but apologys and stopping off the negative treatment will start to make the hate go away eventually. You need to somewhat work with popular opinion in the ME and ride the crap storm you created, once you are truely not working as thier enemy you will soon enough convince enough people and outlive those that cannot be saved...

Pappy fought in the pacific.

Which is why I put my disclaimer in there....

Americans should more accurately have claimed to save Asia from Japan or Europe from a future Russian dominance than that speaking German crap I hear...

[Aemilius Paulus]

Russians and Germans also...

Yes, and plenty a Russian still despise or mildly dislike the what we still call "The Fritz". Those may not be the brightest individauls, but the bitterness remains, especially among those who have experienced the horrors.

Now, with Jews I have no experience on that matter, but I am certain there are at least "some" of them who share the same sentiment. I do not think it was a coincidence that the Ehud Barak-Angela Merkel meeting was the first of its kind...