Which one is the real Bosphorus?

[the man with no name]

In EB i believe that the people in Cherosones (s.p.?) are called the bosphoratai (again s.p.?) but the bosphorous peninsula is located in Bithynia. Could someone clear this up for me? **** i screwed up the title. Can i fix that?

[bobbin]

The Bosporatai in the Cherosones get their name from the Cimmerian Bosporus (todays straits of Kerch). AFAIK the spelling of either is fairly interchangable so you'll see them both refered to as either Bosphorus or Bosporus. I usually use Bosphorus for the southern region and Bosporus for the the northern (mainly because I've always seen the greek kingdom in the crimea refered to as the Bosporan Kingdom).

[Tellos Athenaios]

Actually there might be a subtle difference in meaning; due to the fact that poros is a noun (passage) and phoros is either an adjective (used as noun; but I forget the right adjective that goes along with ‘adjective’ for full marks here) which derives from a verb with quite a few meanings (bearing, yielding) or it is a noun meaning tribute or yield (incidentally derived from the same verb).

And there are no Bosporatai, but that is a different matter...

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I think Bosphoros or Bosporos means channel. So there's the Kimmerian Bosphoros between the Crimea and Russia, and the Thraikian Bosphoros between Bithynia and Thraikia.

[bobbin]

The "Bos" part means cow and "Poros" means channel.

[Tollheit]

I've been told "Poros" means "ford"

[Ludens]

i screwed up the title. Can i fix that?

Maybe it has changed with the forum update, but under the previous software you could change a thread title by editing the title of the first post, provided you did it shortly after creating the thread. If that doesn't work, shoot me message.

[the man with no name]

The Bosporatai in the Cherosones get their name from the Cimmerian Bosporus (todays straits of Kerch). AFAIK the spelling of either is fairly interchangable so you'll see them both refered to as either Bosphorus or Bosporus. I usually use Bosphorus for the southern region and Bosporus for the the northern (mainly because I've always seen the greek kingdom in the crimea refered to as the Bosporan Kingdom).

Actually there might be a subtle difference in meaning; due to the fact that poros is a noun (passage) and phoros is either an adjective (used as noun; but I forget the right adjective that goes along with ‘adjective’ for full marks here) which derives from a verb with quite a few meanings (bearing, yielding) or it is a noun meaning tribute or yield (incidentally derived from the same verb).

And there are no Bosporatai, but that is a different matter...

I think Bosphoros or Bosporos means channel. So there's the Kimmerian Bosphoros between the Crimea and Russia, and the Thraikian Bosphoros between Bithynia and Thraikia.

The "Bos" part means cow and "Poros" means channel.

I've been told "Poros" means "ford"

OK. This meakes it MUCH clearer.

Maybe it has changed with the forum update, but under the previous software you could change a thread title by editing the title of the first post, provided you did it shortly after creating the thread. If that doesn't work, shoot me message.

Thanx Ludens.

[Geticus]

Bosporos= oxford, any place you can carry your cattle from one landmass to an adjacent one that is mostly separated by water.

bos from Greek bous/bos - bull

I would tend to agree that poros is from pherein/phero=to bear/carry (Latin ferro)

It is sort of like the way the Greeks named the big island near Attica Euboea "good cattle land".

[Tellos Athenaios]

That is at odds with your explanation of Bosporos as Oxford because -ford- does not derive from phero. (Poros derives from poreuo [to make/let go]/poreuomai [to make yourself go i.e. to travel] and associated forms such as poreuteos [to be traversed].) Clearly an entirely different etymology. I am inclined to agree that Bosporos is a kind of Oxford, though. (Still, it need not be a ford to be a poros: a poros might also refer to e.g. a mountain passage).

But as I mentioned there is the possibility that Bosphoros (with -ph-) means something different, e.g. cow-yielding/bearing (bringing forth cows) or similar. This would then possibly be a reference to territory particularly well-suited for herding cattle: i.e. lush grassy plains [without many big predators].

Finally note that bous is not neccesarily a bull, more commonly bovine cattle in general (it is bovus in Latin): the English word for bull is more clearly represented by tauros.

[Geticus]

That is at odds with your explanation of Bosporos as Oxford because -ford- does not derive from phero. (Poros derives from poreuo [to make/let go]/poreuomai [to make yourself go i.e. to travel] and associated forms such as poreuteos [to be traversed].) Clearly an entirely different etymology. I am inclined to agree that Bosporos is a kind of Oxford, though. (Still, it need not be a ford to be a poros: a poros might also refer to e.g. a mountain passage).

But as I mentioned there is the possibility that Bosphoros (with -ph-) means something different, e.g. cow-yielding/bearing (bringing forth cows) or similar. This would then possibly be a reference to territory particularly well-suited for herding cattle: i.e. lush grassy plains [without many big predators].

Finally note that bous is not neccesarily a bull, more commonly bovine cattle in general (it is bovus in Latin): the English word for bull is more clearly represented by tauros.

Ok poros from poreuo rather than pherein sounds better. Good point. Though it doesn't much change the meaning since poreuein and pherein have related usages. Are the two verbs etymologically totally unrelated? I don't know and you don't either. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see a PIE radical that fits both verbs.

I like the poreuo etymology better than your "cow yielding" point. The sense of "carry accross/convey" seems to me obvious.

For the record I dragged the "oxford" translation form Liddell & Scott, I claim no originality.