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Thread: Who is the most immoral leader of the 20th ct?

  1. #1
    Member Member Ktonos's Avatar
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    Discussion?
    O xein aggelein Lakedemoniois oti tade efi kimetha tois koinon rimasi poi8omenoi

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    Member Member Azrael's Avatar
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    Ktonos,

    You've left out some top villains, like Toni Blayre, Sandra Husayne, Yosimite Bin Ladel and Dan from Eastenders.


    Seriously though, if English is not your mother tongue, then I would point out that you have seriously miss-spelled the bulk of these names.

    Please take my post as tongue in cheek (humerous).

    If you're interested in what people think about this topic, it might be worth looking into reposting it with the correct spellings.

    Personally I would have to go with Hitler, even though Communism is responsible for more death than the Nazis.

    Again, if English isn't your mother tongue, I would suggest doing a quick search on your poll people on an English internet Search Engine, just to get the names right.

    (Benito Mussolinni - "Duce" (pronounced doocheh) - Deutche is German)

    Azrael
    And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not

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    Autocrat Member Vlad The Impaler's Avatar
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    reading those names was very funny:) first time i thought that he's doing that on purpose but "Bill Klindonm " or smthin is too much
    anyway i vote for Stalin for a few reasons:
    -first of all Romania suffered a lot in communism
    -the poll is about the most IMMORAL leader and i'll tell smthin what my father told me about the start of the communist era in Romania; beacuse the communist wanted to destroy the religious and spiritual belives the interdict Santa Claus; my father was little at that time ( the 50s ) and the communist put instead of Santa smthin that i dont know how to spell in english; anyway.. a stupid name; and the chief of the local communist party take all the children to his bureau and he called "STALIN" andhe put every child to say what gift he want from "daddy STALIN" ;
    i consider makin` brainwashing with children minds most immoral thing;
    Tough Times Don't Last. Tough People Do. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. [Mark Twain]

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    Senior Member Senior Member Red Peasant's Avatar
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    Who's that no.9 supposed to be? SAURON? It's a good job that young chap Frodo ended his shenanigans.....oops, gave away the end of the film(s)
    Dum spiro spero

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    Member Member deejayvee's Avatar
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    I guess only one of the Bush's qualifies for the 20th century.
    There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

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    Member Member Muneyoshi's Avatar
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    I wasnt sure to pick Stalin or Hitler (picked Hitler) because, honestly, who doesnt know their names? I am against what they stood for, what they did, etc. but in their own sense, they have become immortal.

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    Member Member deejayvee's Avatar
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    I think it pretty much comes down to Stalin and Hitler but I voted for Stalin because of quantity dead at his hand.
    There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

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    Member Member fastspawn's Avatar
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    Adi Amin was the most unholy, immoral man on this planet, and the ugandans had the bad luck to get him as their president.

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    Member Member ShadeFlanders's Avatar
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    Once again I miss king Leopold II of Belgium, third biggest (after Hitler and Stalin) mass murderer in history with 10 000 000 congolese deaths on his account.

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    Member Member Ktonos's Avatar
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    No, English is not my mother tongue. But we all know who do I mean. I voted for Stalin because he did what murders he did to accumulate personal power. Hitler on the other hand fdid crimes in order to make his country powerful. It is a bit different. And I could not insert more than 10 entries.
    O xein aggelein Lakedemoniois oti tade efi kimetha tois koinon rimasi poi8omenoi

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    Isn't she pretty in pink? Member Rosacrux's Avatar
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    Gents, you really should do some serious reading about Stalin and his deeds before commiting yourself to reproduce the silly western propaganda that floats around.

    The death toll by dearest Jo Stalin:

    - First wave of purges (late 1920s-early 1930s)= 1.5 mi. people.

    - Second wave of purges (just before WW2) = 500.000 people

    - The great Ukranian famine (since this is charged on him too - new farming policy and all) = 2 mi. people.

    If you add those together the result is Four million people.

    How in the nine hells does that compare with what others done? Hitler, for one. He stands responsible (directly or indirectly) for the death of 35 mi. people - that's the death toll of WW2.

    And Stalin actually rebuild his country and twice: In 1929 USSR was a huge agrarian country, with a technology level barely coming out of the 18th century (right 18th, not 19th). In 1941, days before the war comes hitting on Joes front door, USSR was second only to USA when counting industrial production Of course he rebuild USSR after WW2 too.

    Do you think such a revolution comes for free? Please

    The poll, btw is rather pointless. Immoral leader? Gosh, they are all immoral. It is the main prerequisite to become a leader, moral integrity is a serious boundary in attaining positions of power.



    CHIEF HISTORIAN

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    Member Member Ktonos's Avatar
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    Well Rosacrux, Hitler is responsible for the deaths of soldiers in the battlefield? I do not think so, esp if you take under concideration that in WWII the allies where the aggressors (rightful agressors, but they where thae attacking force even though they ended up the defenders).

    And I agree that every leader has to be more or less immoral in order to be a succesful leader, this is the point of the answer #10. I would choose it, but there are some leaders who where real Evil men. I mean even being a Greek I recognise that Ataturk was a patriot after all, I can partly understand what crimes he has done, but Stalin?
    O xein aggelein Lakedemoniois oti tade efi kimetha tois koinon rimasi poi8omenoi

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    Isn't she pretty in pink? Member Rosacrux's Avatar
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    I'll open up a thread about Stalin, where I can prove why Stalin was - besides a great bastard, which he was - a great leader for his country. Not to hijack your poll too much
    CHIEF HISTORIAN

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    Member Member Ktonos's Avatar
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    I cannot believe that a man who slaughter his own people can be a great leader. Even if Germany was finally destroyed by Hitlers actions he meant to secure and make German people proud and powerful and he succeded at this to a point. Looking forward for your post for Stalin.
    O xein aggelein Lakedemoniois oti tade efi kimetha tois koinon rimasi poi8omenoi

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    Member Member Wavesword's Avatar
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    Ah the Congo, playground of the Belgian King. "Stop shooting the natives, don't you realise how much bullets cost?"
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    Corporate Hippie Member rasoforos's Avatar
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    rosacrux to my opinion the only 'achievement' that can be attributed to Stalin is that the populated Siberia
    Αξιζει φιλε να πεθανεις για ενα ονειρο, κι ας ειναι η φωτια του να σε καψει.

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    Isn't she pretty in pink? Member Rosacrux's Avatar
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    Go and read what I've written in the Jo Stalin thread
    CHIEF HISTORIAN

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    Member Member ShadeFlanders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Citaat[/b] (Wavesword @ Nov. 22 2002,14:27)]Ah the Congo, playground of the Belgian King. "Stop shooting the natives, don't you realise how much bullets cost?"
    ...and no-one cared (nor does anyone care today apparently).
    More good colonial economics: don't cut off their fingers, they'll work less efficiently: cut of their ears/tongue/nose instead.

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    Senior Member Senior Member Red Peasant's Avatar
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    What an odious thread.

    On the one hand, we have people defending Stalin (takes some doing) by citing the very lowest -and questionable- estimates for the enormous death toll he inflicted on his country. Then excusing him with the kind of egregiously banal "whoops, can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs" justification that would make Genghis Khan blush.

    And, on the other hand, we have the apologists for Hitler. Surely that is way beyond the pale of even the most byzantine (topical;)) sophistry? According to them, he is a much misunderstood and cuddly chap who killed only the troops of his bullying, and provocative opponents because they attacked him first. I'll ask the old Polish miners of the place where I grew up about that one And I'm sure any Jewish members of the forum can jog my memory about certain other nefarious activities of the much put-upon Mr Hitler.

    Laugh or cry?



    Dum spiro spero

    A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
    - William James

  20. #20
    Member Member Ktonos's Avatar
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    Well, is THAT rasism or what. Imho anybody can support any opinion and thesis if he can reason them.To judge something/someone becausethey told you so or because it is "common" and the natural thing to do is the real "rasism". I may have a disagreement with Rosacrux but I respect that he gives reasons and facts to support his opinion. You don't.
    O xein aggelein Lakedemoniois oti tade efi kimetha tois koinon rimasi poi8omenoi

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    Senior Member Senior Member Red Peasant's Avatar
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    In MY opinion, it is an odious thread with odious opinions. And, your idea of "racism" is laughable, and an insult to people who are really a victim of such attitudes and persecution.

    Furthermore, I deny the contention that your arguments are in any way well supported, reasoned, or 'factual'. They are a tissue of assertions, false premisses, and downright falsehoods. I laugh in the face of your accusations.



    Dum spiro spero

    A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
    - William James

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    Senior Member Senior Member Ithaskar FŽarindel's Avatar
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    Keep it cool plz Gents

    We are all entitled to have our own views.
    FŽa-Quendi

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    Running round in circles IS better, B!

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    Senior Member Senior Member The Scourge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Ithaskar FŽarindel @ Nov. 22 2002,16:53)]Keep it cool plz Gents

    We are all entitled to have our own views.
    By golly you're right,but on the other hand Red peasants entitled to tell them that thier views are bollocks.
    Go Red peasant.

    That's it.

  24. #24
    Member Member Azrael's Avatar
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    Hey Guys,

    Be nice to Ktonos. He's already said that English isn't his mother tongue.

    Ktonons, racism, put simply, is when you discriminate against another ethnic group.

    To "judge something/someone becausethey told you so or because it is "common" and the natural thing to do" is ignorance (and don't presume that I'm calling anyone here ignorant).

    Hitler still gets my vote as the most immoral since he convinced his population to buy into National Socialism and its morally reprehensible core values of militaristic expansionism, racism, the Fuhrer Cult and enforced eugenics.

    I.G. Farben, the manufactueres of Zyklon B, the chemical agent used to murder the Jews built a factory next to Auschwitz so that they would have a steady supply of slave labour, Jewish slave labour, who were forced into building the chemicals that would eventually kill them and the ovens that would eventually burn them (sometimes alive).

    The Nazis built the Gas Chambers with windows so they could watch.

    Ilsa Koch popularised exotic lampshades and book bindings.

    Made from the skin of dead Jews.

    Most of us have products made by I.G. Farben in our own homes. The company was technically dissolved by the allies after W.W. II, however it was actually only split into smaller companies.

    Think about the 6 million Jews who helped BASF, among others, get where they are today, the next time you slap one of their video tapes in your VCR to tape a show.

    Azrael
    And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not

  25. #25
    Senior Member Senior Member Red Peasant's Avatar
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    I said the thread and certain of the opinions, in my opinion, were "odious". I tried to ridicule them and in doing so I did not get personal...show me where I did. I did not say these people should be stopped from airing their opinions.....and, as a good Englishman, I'd fight for their right to free speech. Something we have always fought for....and that is not an opinion.
    Dum spiro spero

    A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
    - William James

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    Senior Member Senior Member Ithaskar FŽarindel's Avatar
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    Wow I didn't mean it in bad-taste. But I'm just trying to stop trouble before it starts; that is part of my job here

    My apologies if I offended either of you, but it's best to break up scuffle's before they start.
    FŽa-Quendi

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    Running round in circles IS better, B!

  27. #27
    Senior Member Senior Member Red Peasant's Avatar
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    No offence at all mate. Just stating my position so there's no comebacks by you guys. Wouldn't want to be labelled as an 'undesirable' by the forum police
    Dum spiro spero

    A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices.
    - William James

  28. #28
    Member Member Ktonos's Avatar
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    I know what rasism is. I meant "rasism" meaning to judge someone who tells something which is a taboo, just because he tells it. Thats all. No offence. Sometimes a written message is mistaken for a personal attack, but this is not always the case.
    O xein aggelein Lakedemoniois oti tade efi kimetha tois koinon rimasi poi8omenoi

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    Member Member PFJ_bejazuz's Avatar
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    Dan from Eastenders was even a tw*t in Cliffhanger.

    Speaking as a Brit, I kinda dig the way we're now the classic Hollywood bad guys.

    The Germans & Russians had that game sewn up for nearly half a century.

    **arches shoulder & sweeps cape as GM heads off down the chip shop**
    10 kb max.

  30. #30
    Member Member Ktonos's Avatar
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    Everyone things that WWII was a war between good and evil. IMHO this is not so. It was a war like any other but in a world scale. The winner would present the defeated as the evil. Both sides did war crimes. How many of you know that in the USA, FBI arrested without accusations Japs and Italian citizens, sending them in military camps. After the war few came back home.
    O xein aggelein Lakedemoniois oti tade efi kimetha tois koinon rimasi poi8omenoi

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