I have truly had enough

[Fragony]

oh common do I have to start about drunk politicians and journalists rubbing up, are you really sure you want to. Sorry, can't trap the PVV, quite the opposite the willingness with which they dive in just every trap that is set only emphasises my claim that the left no longer understands society.

@subatan, I understand society better because I don't think a free holiday catching butterflies would be the eye-opener the socioloco's expected it to be, does that make me strange?

[CountArach]

I demand that Adrian sheds light on this!

[The Stranger]

I support Sartre. If you have a problem with it, do something about it. Instead of ranting and raving and pointing fingers. Instead of voting every four years, screw the vote and change the people that are governed, not the governers. In order for a country to change the people have to change, democratic politics is powerless. They can't rule, they only govern, and in Holland they only compromise.

[Husar]

I support Sartre. If you have a problem with it, do something about it. Instead of ranting and raving and pointing fingers. Instead of voting every four years, screw the vote and change the people that are governed, not the governers. In order for a country to change the people have to change, democratic politics is powerless. They can't rule, they only govern, and in Holland they only compromise.

Well, ranting about it is an attempt to change the people, isn't it?
With your rant you try to get attention and convince people that something needs to be done. Those convinced would ideally spread the message, you can't discuss this one-on-one with several million other people. You however sound like you are not going to spread Fragony's message and are thus passively undermining his effort, yet accuse him of not doing enough, pure hypocrisy.

[The Stranger]

Well, ranting about it is an attempt to change the people, isn't it?
With your rant you try to get attention and convince people that something needs to be done. Those convinced would ideally spread the message, you can't discuss this one-on-one with several million other people. You however sound like you are not going to spread Fragony's message and are thus passively undermining his effort, yet accuse him of not doing enough, pure hypocrisy.

that is very true. But in your rant you mustnt place the fault solely in other people. I dont agree with frag entirely (maybe largely), but that doesnt mean I'm not helping in the process. Im also spreading a message. Not only, im trying to put the message in to practise.

[Strike For The South]

See kids, This is what happens when you have SOCIALISM!

[Husar]

that is very true. But in your rant you mustnt place the fault solely in other people. I dont agree with frag entirely (maybe largely), but that doesnt mean I'm not helping in the process. Im also spreading a message. Not only, im trying to put the message in to practise.

Yes, true, but what if it's really just other people who are to blame? You cannot blame society at large for every mistake the government makes, once they have been voted in they can do things or not do things without the approval of society at large.

See kids, This is what happens when you have SOCIALISM!

No, what we see here is what happens when you have a lack of socialism, in socialism the roofs would be spread equally to all people in need of one and there would be noone left out.
The whole thing about sending them on holiday instead of jailing them is hardly a socialist issue and sounds rather untrue to me anyway. I have however heard of areas in cities that the police don't or don't like to patrol because they're so dangerous, that can happen in a lot of countries and should IMO be countered by highly increased police activity, or just build a wall around it like some do.

[The Stranger]

Yes, true, but what if it's really just other people who are to blame? You cannot blame society at large for every mistake the government makes, once they have been voted in they can do things or not do things without the approval of society at large.


No, what we see here is what happens when you have a lack of socialism, in socialism the roofs would be spread equally to all people in need of one and there would be noone left out.
The whole thing about sending them on holiday instead of jailing them is hardly a socialist issue and sounds rather untrue to me anyway. I have however heard of areas in cities that the police don't or don't like to patrol because they're so dangerous, that can happen in a lot of countries and should IMO be countered by highly increased police activity, or just build a wall around it like some do.

they cannot DIRECTLY be held responsible for what the goverment does, but they ARE INDIRECTLY responsible for what the government does, simply because the goverment can only remain in practise as long as the people allow it.

[Megas Methuselah]

See kids, This is what happens when you have SOCIALISM!

I know, isn't it great?!

[Fragony]

You are making the classical leftist mistake Tribesy, you can't make a difference between what you want and what is.

[Ser Clegane]

I would highly appreciate if this thread stayed civil.

I think the discussion of the pros and cons of alternative ways to handle juvenile offenders deserves a bit more than flaming other patrons.

Thanks

[Subotan]

@subotan, I understand society better because I don't think a free holiday catching butterflies would be the eye-opener the socioloco's expected it to be, does that make me strange?

First of all, can you provide some (Preferably English) sources that that even happened, and second, I'm sure it's not Dutsch policy to pack every single prisoner off to Morrocco with a butterfly net. If it did happen, it was probably an experiment.

[Fragony]

an experiment yeah, you never know the outcome and if it turns out overly fascinating you can always become a major in insignificant

[Subotan]

an experiment yeah, you never know the outcome and if it turns out overly fascinating you can always become a major in insigificunt

Oh how ridiculous of me to think that political decisions should be based upon evidence.
Also, you haven't produced any sources for this butterfly thing.

[Kralizec]

If the trip to Spain with those Maroccan kids was funded with tax money (I fear it was) that's outrageous. On a rather small scale.

The thing with the Turkish human trafficker was a massive -up, mostly the public ministry's fault though from what I understand instead of the judges involved. They've got some serious house-cleaning to do, but I'm cynical enough to believe that these sort of -ups will happen regardless of wich country or year you live in.
So meh.

Mind you; I do not hold the Elsevier in very high regard

It's an editorial magazine afterall, admittedly with a largely right-wing slant. Except one or two writers who I'm pretty sure are insane it's pretty decent.

[Fragony]

I am not allowed to post non-english sources, you will just have to take my word for it, or interpret the silence.

edit, @subutan soz posting on consolo the labbie died

[Tribesman]

you will just have to take my word for it

I wonder where that foriegn story you posted about the evil immigrant stealing a playstation in a burglary and robbing the poor dutch fell is?

[Fragony]

I wonder where that foriegn story you posted about the evil immigrant stealing a playstation in a burglary and robbing the poor dutch fell is?

what are you talking about and why isn't it on the list I still did not get. And are you actually having a good time when you laugh, comes across as not even nearly happypaddie