Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 51

Thread: actions to fight steam...

  1. #1

    Default actions to fight steam...

    hey i know every1 will be like hey welcome to the forums
    i take part in the official total war forums but after my fustration with steam i decided to move here aswell

    now i was wondering if all the people who wouldnt like to see steam in future games of total war to a petition or summit abit like what they did for left for dead or something

    i know some people do *like* steam but to me on the official forums they all seemed.... how can i say... too proper abit sounded 2 much like the admins so decided 2 try here aswell

    just leave any ideas you have ect. n try to be civil we want to be taken seriously as i hate steam since i was *made* to have it to play empire total war :/

    Anyhoo peace out and i hope this works
    Last edited by Nelson; 10-12-2009 at 00:17. Reason: language

  2. #2

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    btw http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/61842?page=5

    theres the link to the official forums page, my thread got merged so its the top of page 5

  3. #3

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Left 4 dead is made by valve, who also made Steam...so It's sort of obvious they would use it. Anyway, I think Steam is fantastic. Whenever I have to re-download my games (which happens a lot), I don't want to have to wait until I have a chance to find my CD. It also helps patching TREMENDOUSLY, because it's all automatic and I don't have to dig through the internet hoping to find a download link.

  4. #4
    Deadhead Member Owen Glyndwr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Santa Cruz, California, USA
    Posts
    464

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    But coupled with this you also have problems such as a better enforced DRM and the inability to select which patches you want to and not download.
    "You must know, then, that there are two methods of fight, the one by law, the other by force: the first method is that of men, the second of beasts; but as the first method is often insufficient, one must have recourse to the second. It is therefore necessary for a prince to know well how to use both the beast and the man.
    -Niccolo Machiavelli


    AARs:
    The Aeduic War: A Casse Mini AAR
    The Kings of Land's End: A Lusitani AAR

  5. #5

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Wait...better enforced DRM is a problem? you lost me there

    I will agree partially on the which patch you want to download part. However with this game, I would say 1.5 is better than 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4 so It's not a big deal. If patch 1.6 completely destroyed the game, I would agree that it becomes a problem

  6. #6
    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,585
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Automatic patching, is overall a good thing.

    It screws up mods, yes, but it puts everyone on the same page.

    The steam platform is currently the best DRM measure. Yes it can be circumvented, but it is not widespread.

    I do not see what you seek to gain by attempting to get total war off steam. We would move back to secuROM, which may delve into lower rings. The thing is terrible. CA/SEGA don't want it as it loses sales and is not as effective.

    On top of that, gone are the terrible lobby days of R:TW and M2:TW, we have steam as an MP platform.

    Steam has moved the game forward.

    If you install M2TW:Kingdoms, you are made to have secuROM. You have no choice.

    Steam is a platform, it is not DRM.

    I had steam years and years ago, and I disliked it. But it has changed since then. Steam and Impulse are the best platforms out there for what we need, and what developers and distributors need.
    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    The org will be org until everyone calls it a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    but I joke. Some of my best friends are Vietnamese villages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Anyone who wishes to refer to me as peverlemur is free to do so.

  7. #7
    Member Member Durallan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    South Australia!
    Posts
    461

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    steam isn't too bad it would just mean anyone who didn't have an internet connection, or a reliable one couldn't play the game, but there aren't enough of those people around for any game developer to care, unfortunately.
    I play Custom Campaign Mod with 1.2!
    My guide on the Family Tree - https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=87794
    Kobal2fr's guides on training chars to be
    Governors - https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86130
    Generals - https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=87740
    Blue's guide to char development - https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=87579

  8. #8

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    sadly not every1 likes every patch out there :/ i would prefer the option to download a patch if i "wanted" and the drm thing is stupid tbh, give companys a false sense of security but its not different than secuROM it just mean the pirates need the internet...... which they all do these days.

    my internet is not always on, it switchs off so my little bro isnt on it at stupid times ie when i get back from work lol and thats prob why i find it so annoying i need steam online to log on

    the main point steam doesnt "always" work, i do admit i think how it works with the multiplayer is better than the days of med2 and rome but its just how un-damn reliable it is!

  9. #9
    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,585
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    In what sense?

    Steam is harder to crack than secuROM, and is done less often.

    Steam has offline mode. Tis a godsend.
    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    The org will be org until everyone calls it a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    but I joke. Some of my best friends are Vietnamese villages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Anyone who wishes to refer to me as peverlemur is free to do so.

  10. #10
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    ゞ( ゚Д゚)ゞ
    Posts
    5,974

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    I would not claim that Steam is cracked any less. :)
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



    "Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009

  11. #11
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Albion
    Posts
    15,930
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    The cracks don't work with Steam multiplayer, and have to use these methods which involve bending over backwards to stick your head where the sun does not shine.
    Days since the Apocalypse began
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."

  12. #12
    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,585
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Quote Originally Posted by antisocialmunky View Post
    I would not claim that Steam is cracked any less. :)
    I would.

    As Beskar put it, its a lot easier to crack secuROM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    The org will be org until everyone calls it a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    but I joke. Some of my best friends are Vietnamese villages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Anyone who wishes to refer to me as peverlemur is free to do so.

  13. #13
    Abou's nemesis Member Krusader's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Kjøllefjord, Norway
    Posts
    5,723

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Two things I hate.

    1) Adding Friends can be a real hassle.

    2) € pricing is whack. Last time I checked, I could by Call of Duty 4 for half the price on Impulse, compared to what it cost on Steam. (50 € on Steam, 37 $ or such on Impulse).
    "Debating with someone on the Internet is like mudwrestling with a pig. You get filthy and the pig loves it"
    Shooting down abou's Seleukid ideas since 2007!

  14. #14
    The Dam Dog Senior Member Sheogorath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,330

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Please don't use numbers in place of letters. This is a forum, not AIM. I'm not a mod and I'm not trying to sound elitist here, but really. Using '1' in place of 'one' saves you a full two keystrokes. I'm sure it doesn't save that much time.

    In any case, I'm no fan of steam. Automatic updates annoy me. Broadcasting what I'm playing to everybody all the time is a bugger. The fact that it's inconvenient to start Steam in offline mode without first going into online mode (and impossible sometimes, if Steam is having a bad day) annoys me as well.

    Not having to change CD's all the time is nice, though.

    I don't really think it's worth the bother of some crazy uprising or anything, though. It's a minor annoyance.
    Tallyho lads, rape the houses and burn the women! Leave not a single potted plant alive! Full speed ahead and damn the cheesemongers!

  15. #15

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Offline mode is a godsend, and switching to offline mode is very simple. Just open up Steam, and go to file>Offline Mode.

    Steam definetely helps against cracked versions of the game being released, although it's obvious that there will be some copies released over the internet

  16. #16
    The Dam Dog Senior Member Sheogorath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1,330

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Yes, BUT, like I said, you gotta go into online mode to switch to offline mode. Or go in and disable your internet connection. And then if Steam doesn't have your password logged, you have to sign on anyway.
    Tallyho lads, rape the houses and burn the women! Leave not a single potted plant alive! Full speed ahead and damn the cheesemongers!

  17. #17

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    I just don't see a very strong argument against steam.

    The only valid one, being the abiltity to choose whether to patch or not, only seems to matter with CA releases.

    I cannot recall another developer that I have purchased a game from that releases patches after launch that change the game so radically, as opposed to fixing errors, where I would reluctantly or regret applying a patch.

  18. #18

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    If you go into steam, and have no internet connection, you'll just get a bigwindow that says 'no internet connection'. Wait until that loads, then go to offline mode.

  19. #19
    Member Member Boohugh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    here and there in a heart of oak
    Posts
    378

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Quote Originally Posted by peacemaker View Post
    If you go into steam, and have no internet connection, you'll just get a bigwindow that says 'no internet connection'. Wait until that loads, then go to offline mode.
    In theory, yes. In practice, if you aren't connected to any network then you will get that pop-up and Steam will load up into offline mode fine. The problem comes when you are connected to a network but not the internet, then Steam (for me at least) just tries to update itself but as it has no internet connection just gets stuck on 0% . The solution is obviously to just disconnect from the network and try again but it is slightly annoying and would be nice if Valve addressed the issue.

    Having said that, Steam seems fine to me and a good answer to piracy (better than the intrusive DRM you get with some games at least). It could use a few improvements (e.g. the option of whether to install a patch or not) but overall I find the automatic patching better than having to search for download links, etc.

  20. #20
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    ゞ( ゚Д゚)ゞ
    Posts
    5,974

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Quote Originally Posted by pevergreen View Post
    I would.

    As Beskar put it, its a lot easier to crack secuROM.
    You said done less often but all that requires is cracking the game once. Yes it is easier to crack traditional DRM but you can find steam games just as easily and that's all that really matters in the end with regards to piracy isn't it?
    Last edited by antisocialmunky; 10-12-2009 at 13:28.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



    "Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009

  21. #21
    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,585
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Yes and no.

    I feel we are treading the line though. I'm wary of the line right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    The org will be org until everyone calls it a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    but I joke. Some of my best friends are Vietnamese villages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Anyone who wishes to refer to me as peverlemur is free to do so.

  22. #22
    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    In my own skin.
    Posts
    13,208

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    In all honesty, the main reason why I didn't buy E:TW was Steam.

    As a matter of principle.

    Even if you buy the game on DVD, you need to go online and create a Steam account and have the game activated.

    Why would I have to depend on some company to be allowed to play a game I legally purchased?

    Call me old-fashioned, but I want to go back to the good old days: 1) I read about a game I like; 2) I go to the store and buy the game; 3) I go home, install the game and enjoy; 4) the copy I bought is mine and I can install and re-install it as much as I want, patch or not patch, in short: it's my copy, my game, I play when and where ever I want.

    Give me anything less in return for the full price you want me to pay for your game and I simply will not buy your game, because you are not selling a game, but a permission.

    My attitude will probably mean the end of my gaming days for me, since, unfortunately, almost every new game requires some sort of online activation or registration to be able to be allowed to play it.

    Not with me, so no more games for me it is.
    Andres is our Lord and Master and could strike us down with thunderbolts or beer cans at any time. ~Askthepizzaguy

    Ja mata, TosaInu

  23. #23

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Originally posted by Andres
    Why would I have to depend on some company to be allowed to play a game I legally purchased?
    Well, everyone has access to the net these days, so if this measure is effective against piracy for developers/publishers, so be it, imho. Its about a million times better than copy protection software - the SECUROM type, at least for me.

    the copy I bought is mine and I can install and re-install it as much as I want, patch or not patch, in short: it's my copy, my game, I play when and where ever I want.
    Agreed; this is a pain indeed and it does feel bad.

    Not with me, so no more games for me it is.
    No more pc games you mean. Just mafia games
    The Caravel Mod: a (very much) improvedvanilla MTW/VI v2.1 early campaign

    Please make sure you have the latest version (v3.3)
    Since v3.3 the Caravel Mod includes customised campaigns for huge and default unit settings

    Download v3.3
    Info & Discussion Thread

  24. #24
    Member Member Boohugh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    here and there in a heart of oak
    Posts
    378

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post

    Give me anything less in return for the full price you want me to pay for your game and I simply will not buy your game, because you are not selling a game, but a permission.
    But isn't that what has always happened? I was under the impression from all the EULA's you agree to when you install most games (new and old) that all you ever got was permission to use the software, it wasn't yours in and of itself. The only difference I see now is that publishers and developers are trying to find ways to enforce that EULA, they aren't really changing what you are buying.

  25. #25

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Call me old-fashioned, but I want to go back to the good old days: 1) I read about a game I like; 2) I go to the store and buy the game; 3) I go home, install the game and enjoy; 4) the copy I bought is mine and I can install and re-install it as much as I want, patch or not patch, in short: it's my copy, my game, I play when and where ever I want.

    Like BooHugh said, all you're doing is buying permission anyway. That's the point of EULA. Also, with Steam, you can install and re-install it whenever you want, and now you don't even need the disc. This however stops people from playing the same copy of the same game on two different computers at once. That's the problem with a lot of games, and Steam helps against this.

  26. #26
    the G-Diffuser Senior Member pevergreen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    11,585
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    At least it isnt the EA download service.

    I bought Northern Strike for Battlefield 2142. Its the expansion pack. Digital Download only. Now, I get permission to download this for a year, after that, I no longer own it. So I have to buy it again if I want to install it.
    Quote Originally Posted by TosaInu
    The org will be org until everyone calls it a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    but I joke. Some of my best friends are Vietnamese villages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    Anyone who wishes to refer to me as peverlemur is free to do so.

  27. #27
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,617

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Hmm, I started my laptop when it was not online, went to Steam and it said it could not connect and allowed me to use it offline, I could start games as well. Haven't really played around much with it but being offline did not seem to be a problem at all.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  28. #28
    Member Member Elmar Bijlsma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    236

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Quote Originally Posted by pevergreen View Post
    At least it isnt the EA download service.

    I bought Northern Strike for Battlefield 2142. Its the expansion pack. Digital Download only. Now, I get permission to download this for a year, after that, I no longer own it. So I have to buy it again if I want to install it.
    Burn the installation files on a disc or an external HD or any number of alternatives. Really, some people have only themselves to blame.

    On Steam, it's quite good in some places and annoyingly authoritarian in others. It should leave more things up to me, as I am pretty good at knowing wqhat I want and when, unlike Steam. Yet it insists on interfering in my decision making every opportunity it gets.
    I'd just as soon not have it, but not quite up for boycotting it. But I must raise objection to the statement that if not Steam, then SecuRom. There are a whole range of DRM that are less annoying, and of course the option of no DRM.
    Steam was chosen to help CA/SEGA flog DLC, our ease of use did not figure in that decision at all, so we can gripe about it all day, it would matter not one jot.

  29. #29

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmar Bijlsma View Post
    Burn the installation files on a disc or an external HD or any number of alternatives. Really, some people have only themselves to blame.

    On Steam, it's quite good in some places and annoyingly authoritarian in others. It should leave more things up to me, as I am pretty good at knowing wqhat I want and when, unlike Steam. Yet it insists on interfering in my decision making every opportunity it gets.
    I'd just as soon not have it, but not quite up for boycotting it. But I must raise objection to the statement that if not Steam, then SecuRom. There are a whole range of DRM that are less annoying, and of course the option of no DRM.
    Steam was chosen to help CA/SEGA flog DLC, our ease of use did not figure in that decision at all, so we can gripe about it all day, it would matter not one jot.
    It requires online authentication upon install and to play. No offline mode for EA....

  30. #30
    Villiage Idiot Member antisocialmunky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    ゞ( ゚Д゚)ゞ
    Posts
    5,974

    Default Re: actions to fight steam...

    Quote Originally Posted by pevergreen View Post
    At least it isnt the EA download service.

    I bought Northern Strike for Battlefield 2142. Its the expansion pack. Digital Download only. Now, I get permission to download this for a year, after that, I no longer own it. So I have to buy it again if I want to install it.
    Usually as long as you own the license to play it, getting it in the original(non-cracked) form any way you can is fine. Maybe direct download stuff puts crap in the EULA but I don't think that's quite legal. Companies put all sorts of junk in the EULA that's not actually within their reasonable legal authority since no one nitpicks those things unless a lawsuit comes up.

    I personally like the Op Flashpoint and Arkhem Asylum methods of DRM where they embed hundreds of lines of conditional statements instead of function calls that only work if it can detect a scratch pattern on the disk.

    Thereby the game is broken and extremely hard to make player from a cracked version.

    Also its pretty hilarious when someone posts the problem on the help forums and gets pwned by the devs.
    Last edited by antisocialmunky; 10-13-2009 at 04:57.
    Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose.



    "Hi, Billy Mays Here!" 1958-2009

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO