actions to fight steam...

[green jacket]

hey i know every1 will be like hey welcome to the forums
i take part in the official total war forums but after my fustration with steam i decided to move here aswell

now i was wondering if all the people who wouldnt like to see steam in future games of total war to a petition or summit abit like what they did for left for dead or something

i know some people do *like* steam but to me on the official forums they all seemed.... how can i say... too proper abit sounded 2 much like the admins so decided 2 try here aswell

just leave any ideas you have ect. n try to be civil we want to be taken seriously as i hate steam since i was *made* to have it to play empire total war :/

Anyhoo peace out and i hope this works

[green jacket]

btw http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/61842?page=5

theres the link to the official forums page, my thread got merged so its the top of page 5

[peacemaker]

Left 4 dead is made by valve, who also made Steam...so It's sort of obvious they would use it. Anyway, I think Steam is fantastic. Whenever I have to re-download my games (which happens a lot), I don't want to have to wait until I have a chance to find my CD. It also helps patching TREMENDOUSLY, because it's all automatic and I don't have to dig through the internet hoping to find a download link.

[Owen Glyndwr]

But coupled with this you also have problems such as a better enforced DRM and the inability to select which patches you want to and not download.

[peacemaker]

Wait...better enforced DRM is a problem? you lost me there

I will agree partially on the which patch you want to download part. However with this game, I would say 1.5 is better than 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4 so It's not a big deal. If patch 1.6 completely destroyed the game, I would agree that it becomes a problem

[pevergreen]

Automatic patching, is overall a good thing.

It screws up mods, yes, but it puts everyone on the same page.

The steam platform is currently the best DRM measure. Yes it can be circumvented, but it is not widespread.

I do not see what you seek to gain by attempting to get total war off steam. We would move back to secuROM, which may delve into lower rings. The thing is terrible. CA/SEGA don't want it as it loses sales and is not as effective.

On top of that, gone are the terrible lobby days of R:TW and M2:TW, we have steam as an MP platform.

Steam has moved the game forward.

If you install M2TW:Kingdoms, you are made to have secuROM. You have no choice.

Steam is a platform, it is not DRM.

I had steam years and years ago, and I disliked it. But it has changed since then. Steam and Impulse are the best platforms out there for what we need, and what developers and distributors need.

[Durallan]

steam isn't too bad it would just mean anyone who didn't have an internet connection, or a reliable one couldn't play the game, but there aren't enough of those people around for any game developer to care, unfortunately.

[green jacket]

sadly not every1 likes every patch out there :/ i would prefer the option to download a patch if i "wanted" and the drm thing is stupid tbh, give companys a false sense of security but its not different than secuROM it just mean the pirates need the internet...... which they all do these days.

my internet is not always on, it switchs off so my little bro isnt on it at stupid times ie when i get back from work lol and thats prob why i find it so annoying i need steam online to log on

the main point steam doesnt "always" work, i do admit i think how it works with the multiplayer is better than the days of med2 and rome but its just how un-damn reliable it is!

[pevergreen]

In what sense?

Steam is harder to crack than secuROM, and is done less often.

Steam has offline mode. Tis a godsend.

[antisocialmunky]

I would not claim that Steam is cracked any less. :)

[Beskar]

The cracks don't work with Steam multiplayer, and have to use these methods which involve bending over backwards to stick your head where the sun does not shine.

[pevergreen]

I would not claim that Steam is cracked any less. :)

I would.

As Beskar put it, its a lot easier to crack secuROM.

[Krusader]

Two things I hate.

1) Adding Friends can be a real hassle.

2) € pricing is whack. Last time I checked, I could by Call of Duty 4 for half the price on Impulse, compared to what it cost on Steam. (50 € on Steam, 37 $ or such on Impulse).

[Sheogorath]

Please don't use numbers in place of letters. This is a forum, not AIM. I'm not a mod and I'm not trying to sound elitist here, but really. Using '1' in place of 'one' saves you a full two keystrokes. I'm sure it doesn't save that much time.

In any case, I'm no fan of steam. Automatic updates annoy me. Broadcasting what I'm playing to everybody all the time is a bugger. The fact that it's inconvenient to start Steam in offline mode without first going into online mode (and impossible sometimes, if Steam is having a bad day) annoys me as well.

Not having to change CD's all the time is nice, though.

I don't really think it's worth the bother of some crazy uprising or anything, though. It's a minor annoyance.

[peacemaker]

Offline mode is a godsend, and switching to offline mode is very simple. Just open up Steam, and go to file>Offline Mode.

Steam definetely helps against cracked versions of the game being released, although it's obvious that there will be some copies released over the internet

[Sheogorath]

Yes, BUT, like I said, you gotta go into online mode to switch to offline mode. Or go in and disable your internet connection. And then if Steam doesn't have your password logged, you have to sign on anyway.

[nafod]

I just don't see a very strong argument against steam.

The only valid one, being the abiltity to choose whether to patch or not, only seems to matter with CA releases.

I cannot recall another developer that I have purchased a game from that releases patches after launch that change the game so radically, as opposed to fixing errors, where I would reluctantly or regret applying a patch.

[peacemaker]

If you go into steam, and have no internet connection, you'll just get a bigwindow that says 'no internet connection'. Wait until that loads, then go to offline mode.

[Boohugh]

If you go into steam, and have no internet connection, you'll just get a bigwindow that says 'no internet connection'. Wait until that loads, then go to offline mode.

In theory, yes. In practice, if you aren't connected to any network then you will get that pop-up and Steam will load up into offline mode fine. The problem comes when you are connected to a network but not the internet, then Steam (for me at least) just tries to update itself but as it has no internet connection just gets stuck on 0% . The solution is obviously to just disconnect from the network and try again but it is slightly annoying and would be nice if Valve addressed the issue.

Having said that, Steam seems fine to me and a good answer to piracy (better than the intrusive DRM you get with some games at least). It could use a few improvements (e.g. the option of whether to install a patch or not) but overall I find the automatic patching better than having to search for download links, etc.

[antisocialmunky]

I would.

As Beskar put it, its a lot easier to crack secuROM.

You said done less often but all that requires is cracking the game once. Yes it is easier to crack traditional DRM but you can find steam games just as easily and that's all that really matters in the end with regards to piracy isn't it?

[pevergreen]

Yes and no.

I feel we are treading the line though. I'm wary of the line right now.

[Andres]

In all honesty, the main reason why I didn't buy E:TW was Steam.

As a matter of principle.

Even if you buy the game on DVD, you need to go online and create a Steam account and have the game activated.

Why would I have to depend on some company to be allowed to play a game I legally purchased?

Call me old-fashioned, but I want to go back to the good old days: 1) I read about a game I like; 2) I go to the store and buy the game; 3) I go home, install the game and enjoy; 4) the copy I bought is mine and I can install and re-install it as much as I want, patch or not patch, in short: it's my copy, my game, I play when and where ever I want.

Give me anything less in return for the full price you want me to pay for your game and I simply will not buy your game, because you are not selling a game, but a permission.

My attitude will probably mean the end of my gaming days for me, since, unfortunately, almost every new game requires some sort of online activation or registration to be able to be allowed to play it.

Not with me, so no more games for me it is.

[gollum]

Originally posted by Andres
Why would I have to depend on some company to be allowed to play a game I legally purchased?

Well, everyone has access to the net these days, so if this measure is effective against piracy for developers/publishers, so be it, imho. Its about a million times better than copy protection software - the SECUROM type, at least for me.

the copy I bought is mine and I can install and re-install it as much as I want, patch or not patch, in short: it's my copy, my game, I play when and where ever I want.

Agreed; this is a pain indeed and it does feel bad.

Not with me, so no more games for me it is.

No more pc games you mean. Just mafia games

[Boohugh]

Give me anything less in return for the full price you want me to pay for your game and I simply will not buy your game, because you are not selling a game, but a permission.

But isn't that what has always happened? I was under the impression from all the EULA's you agree to when you install most games (new and old) that all you ever got was permission to use the software, it wasn't yours in and of itself. The only difference I see now is that publishers and developers are trying to find ways to enforce that EULA, they aren't really changing what you are buying.

[peacemaker]

Call me old-fashioned, but I want to go back to the good old days: 1) I read about a game I like; 2) I go to the store and buy the game; 3) I go home, install the game and enjoy; 4) the copy I bought is mine and I can install and re-install it as much as I want, patch or not patch, in short: it's my copy, my game, I play when and where ever I want.

Like BooHugh said, all you're doing is buying permission anyway. That's the point of EULA. Also, with Steam, you can install and re-install it whenever you want, and now you don't even need the disc. This however stops people from playing the same copy of the same game on two different computers at once. That's the problem with a lot of games, and Steam helps against this.

[pevergreen]

At least it isnt the EA download service.

I bought Northern Strike for Battlefield 2142. Its the expansion pack. Digital Download only. Now, I get permission to download this for a year, after that, I no longer own it. So I have to buy it again if I want to install it.

[Husar]

Hmm, I started my laptop when it was not online, went to Steam and it said it could not connect and allowed me to use it offline, I could start games as well. Haven't really played around much with it but being offline did not seem to be a problem at all.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

At least it isnt the EA download service.

I bought Northern Strike for Battlefield 2142. Its the expansion pack. Digital Download only. Now, I get permission to download this for a year, after that, I no longer own it. So I have to buy it again if I want to install it.

Burn the installation files on a disc or an external HD or any number of alternatives. Really, some people have only themselves to blame.

On Steam, it's quite good in some places and annoyingly authoritarian in others. It should leave more things up to me, as I am pretty good at knowing wqhat I want and when, unlike Steam. Yet it insists on interfering in my decision making every opportunity it gets.
I'd just as soon not have it, but not quite up for boycotting it. But I must raise objection to the statement that if not Steam, then SecuRom. There are a whole range of DRM that are less annoying, and of course the option of no DRM.
Steam was chosen to help CA/SEGA flog DLC, our ease of use did not figure in that decision at all, so we can gripe about it all day, it would matter not one jot.

[nafod]

Burn the installation files on a disc or an external HD or any number of alternatives. Really, some people have only themselves to blame.

On Steam, it's quite good in some places and annoyingly authoritarian in others. It should leave more things up to me, as I am pretty good at knowing wqhat I want and when, unlike Steam. Yet it insists on interfering in my decision making every opportunity it gets.
I'd just as soon not have it, but not quite up for boycotting it. But I must raise objection to the statement that if not Steam, then SecuRom. There are a whole range of DRM that are less annoying, and of course the option of no DRM.
Steam was chosen to help CA/SEGA flog DLC, our ease of use did not figure in that decision at all, so we can gripe about it all day, it would matter not one jot.

It requires online authentication upon install and to play. No offline mode for EA....

[antisocialmunky]

At least it isnt the EA download service.

I bought Northern Strike for Battlefield 2142. Its the expansion pack. Digital Download only. Now, I get permission to download this for a year, after that, I no longer own it. So I have to buy it again if I want to install it.

Usually as long as you own the license to play it, getting it in the original(non-cracked) form any way you can is fine. Maybe direct download stuff puts crap in the EULA but I don't think that's quite legal. Companies put all sorts of junk in the EULA that's not actually within their reasonable legal authority since no one nitpicks those things unless a lawsuit comes up.

I personally like the Op Flashpoint and Arkhem Asylum methods of DRM where they embed hundreds of lines of conditional statements instead of function calls that only work if it can detect a scratch pattern on the disk.

Thereby the game is broken and extremely hard to make player from a cracked version.

Also its pretty hilarious when someone posts the problem on the help forums and gets pwned by the devs.