army composition

[jedi121212]

I am playing as the Egyptians and was wondering what would be a good army composition for early. I am bringing in the cash and I wanna make at least three stacks.

[Vantek]

Depends on whom you're fighting :P

In standard terms, Saracen infantry are a good backbone unit, with Abyssinians or Ghazi infantry as flankers. Personally, I LOVE Ghazi infantry. Cheap, fast and fanatical! Abyssinians piss me off with their outrageous support cost. I take it the crossbow haven't been researched yet, so Desert Archers is really your only choice for a foot ranged unit. So something like 6 Saracen infantry 6 Desert archers 2 Ghazi/Abyssinians 2 cavalry (including your general) would be an extremely simple combo with no obvious flaw.

However, Egyptians' main strength is cavalry, and when you are fighting relatively lightly armoured and mobile Turks and Almohads, mobility of your own is valuable, and on the other hand Byzantines are too strong to take head on, so you'll have to use a lot of harassment tactics instead. Plus, cavalry is fun for a change after the typical Halb+Arb nonsense. So I would actually use a pretty cavalry heavy combo. Churn out Mamluk cavalry from Egypt, Mamluk horse archers from Sinai, and cheap Bedouine camels from other sources. Use something like, 2 Saracen inf 2 Dessert Archer, 4 Mamluk cav 6 Mamluk HA 2 camels.

Horse Archer heavy armies win against: 1) lightly armoured armies with none or few foot archers 2) cavalry, even armoured (Katatanks die vs fast horse archers). They suck against heavily armoured armies with many foot archers, in that case you need to use Saracen infantry + Desert archer heavy combo of your own.

Somewhat paradoxically I would prefer to use mobile armies on defense and slow sturdy armies on attack. If the enemy turtles on high ground, you can't approach his position with horse archers without getting torn apart by missile fire. However, if it's the enemy that has to approach YOU, you can make life very difficult for him with guerilla tactics. If HE is the attacker, just retreat until he leaves himself vulnerable chasing you, then make a quick surgical strike and retreat before he can reinforce. A lot of fun.

But again, it depends entirely on whom you're facing. If the enemy has zero foot archers, you don't need a single foot unit of your own. Kill horse archers with cavalry and cavalry with horse archers (and camels!) :P Of course infantry without archer support are just sitting ducks and get completely ripped apart by horse archers.

Just my thoughts ^^

[jedi121212]

Thanks. I was going to compose one of my armies with five armenian heavy calvalry, desert archers, and Saracen Infantry. I will try those Ideas.

[Empirate]

I'm writing all this from memory, haven't actually played the game in a while. Forgive any errors, please.


Most of the time, Sahara Cavalry trained in Cyrenaica with a Master Horsebreeder is the most cost-effective cavalry you can get. Quite hard-hitting, cheap, fast, and expendable. Great stuff. Once you've conquered the deserts, add Master Armorer in Cyrenaica to make them more durable in non-desert conditions.

Also - Mithrandir would approve - don't underestimate the lowly Bedouin Camel Warrior. Obtainable from only a fort in several provinces and dirt cheap, those are very easy to spam early. It's a hard unit to counter in masses, as it kills all cavalry the enemy sends against it, and can run away from all infantry. Beware masses of well-protected archers, though. Even in my high and later armies, Bedouin Camel Warriors occasionally find a place, if only as a cheap specialized counter to knights.

Nubian Spearmen are easy to get in numbers, too, and not bad (much better than the Catholic regular Spearmen, and Disciplined to boot). Saracen Infantry is equal to Chivalric Sergeants in most regards, but available earlier. If you're not fighting in the desert, SI is the massive spear backbone you want. In the deserts, Nubians are still better.

Ghazis are another fantastic cheap unit. Use as flankers from a solid Saracen Infantry base, or as a second wave. This way not quite so many of them will die, and they will often deliver the shock which routs the enemy.

Desert Archers are simply better than normal archers (fast, loose formation, and slightly better in melee). Quite good for a long time, don't underestimate these guys. In a missile duel, they fare much better than you might be inclined to think.

Mamluk Archers are my favorite unit in the Egyptian lineup except for Nizaris. Trained in Sinai, they're better than Faris, and can be employed in a number of roles: missile support, bait, medium attack cavalry... Best of all, they can switch between roles at a moment's notice. Not quite as good as Steppe Heavy Cavalry, but very good all the same.

Mamluk Cavalry is a bit too mediocre for my taste. At the time they arrive, even the armor-piercing bonus doesn't put them on the same footing as "true" heavy cavalry. They have their niche as medium cavalry, I suppose - but you've got their more flexible Archer brothers for that. OK unit if you need a heavier kind of cavalry now.

Mamluk Gunners are crap. Wouldn't touch them with a standard-issue 10' pole. The saving grace of regular (Catholic) Gunners is their ability to hold out in melee for a long time. Mamluk Gunners, being the cheap version, are stripped of armor...

Ghulam Cavalry is called heavy cavalry, but in actuality it's nothing more than glorified light cavalry. They're worse than both types of Mamluk cavalry, and have higher prereqs. Even with a valor bonus, they're not worth it, unless you're really strapped for cavalry. I'd take Cyrenaican Saharans over these any day of the week: much, much more cost-effective.

Faris are very good, if not as good as the Russian or Hungarian heavy horse archer types. Slightly better attackers than Mamluk Archers, a bit less durable, but Elite instead of Disciplined. Good all around. Mamluk Archers are a bit better when trained in Sinai though, whereas Faris have no "home ground". Still, get Faris instead of or on top of Mamluk Archers all you like - the difference in game is minimal.

Abyssinian Guards just don't cut it in my book. They're not at all like Ghazis, although that's what you read a lot: They're not fast, not quite as fanatical (although they do have high morale), don't have that high a charge bonus, and have much higher defense - though they're still far from durable. In practice this means they lack a role. They're not flankers (not fast, mediocre charge), they're not line infantry (they still die much too fast for that at base defense 0). Combined with their comparatively high cost and building requirements, Abyssinians have no place in my armies. The only times I tried them out they disappointed.

Nizaris are the cream of the cream. I once trained a full stack of silver-armored Nizaris with a Master Swordsmith in Syria and sent them on a pillaging run into France. This stack could handily defeat well-balanced Catholic armies (lots of CMAA, Royal Knights, Arbalests...). Very much worth the wait. A pity you don't get a real hybrid unit earlier. Oh, and they're actually very good as part of regular armies, too. Nizaris are deadly archers, and the ultimate flanking unit. They're fast, and no unit in the game has a higher charge bonus except for Gallowglasses and Knights! A bit like Ghazis plus bows.

[Vantek]

armenian heavy calvalry

Ooh, I forgot about them/didn't know you've advanced so far already. Yes, they're excellent.

Mamluk Cavalry is a bit too mediocre for my taste. At the time they arrive, even the armor-piercing bonus doesn't put them on the same footing as "true" heavy cavalry. They have their niche as medium cavalry, I suppose - but you've got their more flexible Archer brothers for that. OK unit if you need a heavier kind of cavalry now.

Hmm... I think you might be right.

Mamluk horse archers
Charge 2 Attack 3 Defence 1 Armour 3 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 4 Cost 375 Support cost 70 Elite and have a small shield.

Mamluk cavalry
Charge 4 Attack 2 Defence 3 Armour 4 Speed 9, 20, 22 Morale 4 Cost 275 Support cost 70 Elite and armour piercing, also have a small shield.

Then again, if you consider they will get +1 Valour from Egypt, and are 25% cheaper, and if you face armoured opposition at all, they just might be worth it. The thing is, for a certain time, there aren't really any options to replace them with. I would not build them from any place other than Egypt though.

Wait a second, isn't there something like Khwarazmian cavalry in the Egyptian roster? They're too heavy for the desert, but once you leave the desert they might be worth a consideration.

[jedi121212]

Thanks for the tips. I have three stacks guarding chokepoints and am in the process of making 3 more. The year is 1214. I own all of africa, and asia minor.