army composition

[Vantek]

Damned Golden Horde... I guess you'll need to go heavy on infantry after all. But wait a second, that's not Early anymore, that's High. Isn't the Crossbow available and even the Arbalest likewise? You'll need these against the Horde, Desert Archers will fall way flat. Also means that Mamluk cav can have its use given the armoured mongol heavy cavalry and warriors. Do camels get their bonus in the provinces where the Golden Horde likes to appear? If yes, they could be worth spamming.

Also - Mithrandir would approve - don't underestimate the lowly Bedouin Camel Warrior.

God, I was reminded of that almost the hard way today as the danged camels nearly cost me a battle that I thought was in the basket. They are such a pain in the butt if you have a lot of cavalry. And what were you saying about the Mamluk cavalry Empirate, they routed my General's unit of Feudal Knights like it was nobody's business.

[Roark]

Empirate is on the money. If cash is no object whatsoever, these are some killer armies, IMHO:

OFFENCE (Horde / Desert)

1 Ghulam Bodyguard (General). Preferably a Bedouin General with some stars, but they are rare.
3 Armenian Heavies (Armenian + Master Horse Breeder). No extra armour.
4 Bedouins
2 Saracen Infantry. +1 armour.
2 Nizaris

DEFENCE (Horde / Desert)

1 Ghulam Bodyguard (General). Preferably a Bedouin General with some stars, but they are rare.
1 Bedouin
4 Saracens. +1 armour.
4 Nizaris (yeah, it's a stretch, I know), and as many reserve archers as you can muster.
2 Fast Cavalry. Just for collecting routers, and temporarily diverting Mongol Heavies)

Apart from Saracens and archers/archer hybrids, most other infantry will be nearly useless against the Horde... (my opinion only).

[Vantek]

You're listing only 12 units? What about the remaining 4?

Ghazis can be pretty good against mongol heavy cavalry and hybrid infantry. After all, Saracens don't kill heavy cavalry, they defend against them.

[caravel]

Ghazis can be pretty good against mongol heavy cavalry and hybrid infantry. After all, Saracens don't kill heavy cavalry, they defend against them.

Ghazis are only good as flankers. You need to use them in conjunction with the Saracen. Once the MHC turn and attack them, they are done for. Saracens do kill cavalry, but they take a long time to do it. Once JHI are available the best strategy is to deploy a combination of them and Saracens. The Saracens pin the cavalry down and the JHI destroy them from the flank and rear.

In general as the Turks, I used to favour the following units:

Futtawa: (Think of them as 'Lesser Nizari') Better than Turcoman Foot, vanilla or desert archers and very good flankers against unarmoured units. These units have saved my hide several times in the past with a well timed charge on the enemies flank.

Ghazi Infantry: I only take about 2 units of these into battle. The only time I will use them is when I can hide them in a wood as a nasty surprise. They have a habit of dying very quickly and easily when they are actually attacked.

Turcoman Foot: Armoured Archers. Excellent archers to take on the Mongols with as they can survive well in archery duels with the MHA.

Saracen: The backbone defensive troops. If you take on the Mongols without Saracens you won't last long. They take the brunt of the casualties and protect your missiles. With a proper deployment the enemy will be forced to attack the screen. Never actually direct them to attack unless you specifically want, e.g., a downhill charge, simply deploy them using drag selection.

Turcoman Horse: Send out to harass the enemy and draw off part of their force. I use these to divide and demoralise rather than kill and occasionally mop up routers.

Armenian Heavy Cavalry: Better than the Kwarazmians. Just train in Armenia with the Master Horse Breeder and morale boosting buildings and upgrade armour +1. I use these in small numbers. The main advantage of cavalry is mobility so they are good at getting other units out of a tight spot. I tend to hold them in reserve though I often use them to for a rout of MHC.

Camels.

Janissary Infantry: Replacement for all other skirmisher units (i.e. the Futtuwa) once they become available.

Ottoman Infantry: I tend to replace the Turcoman Foot with these when available (well upgraded).

Janissary Heavy Infantry: Absolute killers. I tend to use these as flankers, though I rarely deploy them against the Mongols as by the time I've teched up to them, the Mongols are long gone.


The units I tend to avoid are:

Janissary Archers: Why??

Ghulam Cavalry: Pointless when you have AHC.

Ottoman Sipahi: Another 'waste of time and money' unit

Vanilla Horse Archers: Pointless when you have Turcomans

Vanilla Archers: The Turks don't need these.

Vanilla Spearmen: I avoid these and instead concentrate on teching up to Saracens. You cannot rely on them against the Mongols anyway.


-Edit: Guess who thought the thread was about the Turks...?

[Vantek]

Ghazis are only good as flankers. You need to use them in conjunction with the Saracen. Once the MHC turn and attack them, they are done for.

Granted, granted. I also typically bring 2 units of them to battle - one for each flank :D

I also once tried to hide a unit in the forest for an ambush against the Golden Horde lol. I don't remember the details but it went very bad - they were charged head-on by a full unit of MHC and lost half of their men + routed in a few seconds...

For Turks, Futuwwa + Saracen Infantry = win until you get Janissaries. However, for Egyptians, I did not even know Nizaris existed lol. Do they require some high tech buildings? I have played Eggy but I never remembered Nizaris...

What's the difference between Turcoman and vanilla HA? I as if remember HA were better about something (was it morale?)

[jedi121212]

Thanks for all the info. It has been really helpful.

[bondovic]

If you want an army for the EARLY era, then scratch any thoughts of a cavalry based army. You could go for Cyrenacian master SC's (+2 valour) along with lots of camels. The real trick is conquering the non-sand desert provinces with this composition. Syria is contestable along these lines, but the turks have TH and camels of their own, so it's not a bank move.

Instead I'd go for a more balance army, especially since your best bet is attacking the Turks - you don't want to stretch yourself by going into north africa and comitting to fleet upkeep right away. A balanced army for the eggs is made up of:

4 SI
4 DA
2 GI
2 SC
3 BC
1 GC (General)

Massing infantry against the Turks is a gamble, since your roster is slightly weaker than theirs (TF + Futtuwa). Going cavalry heavy is also making things harder than they should be - the Turks simly outmatch you by having camels of their own along with AHC and TH. Even by going balanced you're at a disadvantage, of course. But you'll at least have options on the battlefield.

For the HIGH era, I'd do plenty of MamlukHA, a few MC and pump arbs. SI infantry is always your backbone. Spice up your life with a Nizari on each flank and tear into it. Can't stress the importance of MamlukHAs enough, really. Serious bad boys. With +2 valour from Sinai with master breeder they make a HUGE (!) difference in battle. 5 atk 3 def is extremely solid for a horse archer unit. Granted, they're not "fast", and that bugs the hell out of me, but they still mince infantry to man kebab in a jiffy. *Stressing point* Arbs are very nice support for an army with a strong HA unit like the MamlukHA. That's like your biggest advantage going into HIGH - combining weapon systems like that is a war winner.

[caravel]

Granted, granted. I also typically bring 2 units of them to battle - one for each flank :D

I also once tried to hide a unit in the forest for an ambush against the Golden Horde lol. I don't remember the details but it went very bad - they were charged head-on by a full unit of MHC and lost half of their men + routed in a few seconds...

For Turks, Futuwwa + Saracen Infantry = win until you get Janissaries. However, for Egyptians, I did not even know Nizaris existed lol. Do they require some high tech buildings? I have played Eggy but I never remembered Nizaris...

What's the difference between Turcoman and vanilla HA? I as if remember HA were better about something (was it morale?)

No, I thought the thread was about the Turks, so not much of what I posted applies to the Egyptians.



Nizari are Egypt only unit that require the Grand Mosque and Bowyers Workshop. Valour bonus in Syria.

[Vantek]

Grand Mosque as a requirement is a bit of a killer...