What if Constantinople had never fallen to the Turks?

[al Roumi]

This is like trying to extrapolate reality from an EU3 game :D

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Please continue, it's amusing stuff to a mostly uninformed bystander!

[Prussian to the Iron]

Please continue, it's amusing stuff to a mostly uninformed bystander!

it is absolutely! i crave, nay NEED more!

[Sarmatian]

Might be easier if there's a specific topic to discuss. What if Constantinople never fallen to the Turks, what does that mean? What would it be if Byzantine empire survived to this? That's as pointless as discussing what if Aztec empire have never fallen...

Do you mean what if the siege of 1453 failed? Is that what you're asking?

[Vladimir]

Do you mean what if the siege of 1453 failed? Is that what you're asking?

Easy. It would have succeeded in a subsequent year. Byzantium was doomed. They chose their own fate.

[Sarmatian]

What this thread needs IMO is someone who knows about Byzantine society to comment on how that might have affected it's external policy -assuming Byzantium was victorious at Manzikert and resisited other threats.

Would it have been a centre for learning and enlightenment? Would it have sunk into depravity and ignorance?

Would its corruption have rotted the empire from the core if so, what could have happened without the Ottomans to mop up the mess?

I guess really what the OP is about is: would Byzantium have been able to emulate/re-form the Roman empire?

My view is that the odds would have been stacked against it happening. With the extrenal threats, from Catholic central Europe (Austria, Hungary, Poland) and the Islamic East/South, Byzantium would have had its hands full with possible enemies.

Furthermore, in the long run the agricultural wealth of the Balkans and Asia minor would not have been enough to ensure continued wealth throughout the medieval age, renaissance and on. Trade -and a navy- would obviously have been vital for Constantinople's wealth and protection. As mentioned above, this would mean more revenue, but also more squables for them -this time with italian states.

Could Byzantium continue to defend itself? Assert its authority overseas and compete economicaly?

The problem with this is that it covers too broad issues. You're asking someone to predict what would happen with Byzantium during next several centuries. During that time a village in central Italy managed to conquer the known world and create one of the biggest empires the world have ever seen. Small barbaric tribe from the northern Balkans adopted hellenic culture, conquered the rest of greece and reached India. It's quite impossible to tell what would happen with Byzantine empire.

If the question is what would happen if the siege in 1453 failed, the answer is that the Ottomans would return within the next few years and conquer the city then.

Easy. It would have succeeded in a subsequent year. Byzantium was doomed. They chose their own fate.

I agree with the first part, but what do you mean with "they chose their own fate"?

[Vladimir]

I agree with the first part, but what do you mean with "they chose their own fate"?

The answer is in this thread. They rested on their dying laurels.

[al Roumi]

What this thread needs IMO is someone who knows about Byzantine society to comment on how that might have affected it's external policy -assuming Byzantium was victorious at Manzikert and resisited other threats.

Would it have been a centre for learning and enlightenment? Would it have sunk into depravity and ignorance?

Would its corruption have rotted the empire from the core if so, what could have happened without the Ottomans to mop up the mess?

I guess really what the OP is about is: would Byzantium have been able to emulate/re-form the Roman empire?

My view is that the odds would have been stacked against it happening. With the extrenal threats, from Catholic central Europe (Austria, Hungary, Poland) and the Islamic East/South, Byzantium would have had its hands full with possible enemies.

Furthermore, in the long run the agricultural wealth of the Balkans and Asia minor would not have been enough to ensure continued wealth throughout the medieval age, renaissance and on. Trade -and a navy- would obviously have been vital for Constantinople's wealth and protection. As mentioned above, this would mean more revenue, but also more squables for them -this time with italian states.

Could Byzantium continue to defend itself? Assert its authority overseas and compete economicaly?