How do I Crusade?

[fester]

So do I just get an army together, board a ship and sail to were ever the pope tells me to invadec or is there more to it?

[Quintus.JC]

There isn't really much more to it, what you've just said is pretty much what crusade is all about in MIITW in a nutshell.

There are some details that is worth mentioning though. Successful crusades gets you nice rewards from the man in pointy hat (more importantly the boost you get on your character traits compensates for the lost soldiers alone). Failure would have penalties, though it would be of little consequence if your relationship with his holiness is very good (the only penalty that is worth avoiding is one which involves excommunication, nasty business that). Other details are more trivial e.g. desertion, zealots... Furthermore you can determine the location of a crusade to your own purposes, that is if you're favoured by the Papacy.

[Qilue]

You don't really need to put them on a ship. I've sent a crusade overland from Caen to Antioch with no ill effects to my relations with other catholic factions. As long as it continues moving towards the goal, you don't get any desertions either.

[PBI]

Um, I think it's worth pointing out that you do need to get your general to actually join the crusade. Get the general you want to lead the crusade together with at least 6 (I think) units and open the mercenary recruitment screen; there should be a button in the bottom right corner to get the general to join the crusade (if the button is faded out, you aren't eligible to join).

Joining the crusade (rather than just sending a normal army to the target) has a few advantages:

*The movement speed of the crusade army is doubled; this is a huge advantage in getting to the target in a reasonable period of time (and is why sending a normal army to the target is unlikely to work; the other catholic nations will leave you trailing).

*The crusading general can recruit a number of special mercenary types for a very low price; these vary by region but range from Crusader Knights (basically mailed knights on steroids, on balance one of the best cavalry units in the game) through Crusader Sergeants (pretty much standard armoured spearmen) to Pilgrims (pure cannon fodder, good only for manning rams and maintaining public order).

*All units in the crusade do not cost any upkeep for the duration of the crusade (a huge advantage, and one which can be flagrantly abused if you are so inclined).

*If the crusade succeeds, all units on crusade receive an experience boost. This applies whether the army actually took the target or not (though is obviously more for the army which took the target). You also get a moderate cash reward, the general gets some very nice traits and ancillaries (typically increasing chivalry, very useful for growing cities in the early game), and your popularity with the pope will increase substantially.

The disadvantages are:

*Most importantly, you must keep the army moving closer to the target every turn; if you don't, units will begin deserting from the crusade (for this reason, you should never send a crusade to the middle east by ship around the Iberian peninsula from northern Europe; send them overland instead and hire mercenary boats once you reach the Mediterranean coast).

*Once a unit is part of the crusade, it is committed to the crusade until either the target is taken by a catholic nation, or the army is destroyed. Removing the unit from a stack commanded by a general will cause it to desert immediately (note this applies even if the general leading the crusade dies on campaign; for this reason, it is best to use young generals to lead crusades).

*You cannot use a crusading army to directly attack fellow catholics; the payoff is that your armies can cross their lands without penalty. Take care to avoid their armies and cities though, straying into their ZOC will end your army's movement for the turn (I usually just use toggle_fow to find a clear path, this can get very frustrating otherwise).


Crusading can be a very powerful tool; obviously the merits of it will vary depending on your circumstances. Generally speaking it involves considerable cost and difficulty at first to establish and expand your holding in a distant land with a hostile religion, but later becomes very lucrative due to controlling some of the most wealthy regions in the game and having easy access to some of the best merchant resources. I almost always try to get in on one of the early crusades, it is generally a good idea to give yourself the financial edge over your neighbours.

It's worth noting that many of the crusade mechanics can be abused, which can make the game very easy if you do it flagrantly enough. I generally try not to go overboard with this, restricting myself to the normal benefits that crusading brings, but if you want to see just how far it can be taken you should check out the Blitzmaster thread; most of the strategies there revolve around massive, rapid, cheap expansion in every direction using crusades.

[fester]

thanks guys knowledge is poweer

[Prussian to the Iron]

You don't really need to put them on a ship. I've sent a crusade overland from Caen to Antioch with no ill effects to my relations with other catholic factions. As long as it continues moving towards the goal, you don't get any desertions either.

unfortunately this is really the only way to do it from England; i once tried to sai a crusading army from london to Jerusalem, and somehow people still deserted, even when i was just trying to sail around france.

[Quintus.JC]

unfortunately this is really the only way to do it from England; i once tried to sai a crusading army from london to Jerusalem, and somehow people still deserted, even when i was just trying to sail around france.

You could sail your ships to Southern France first, then send your land forces to march through France to join your fleet. That way there won't be any desertions since you are never marching away from the target settlement (this route was used by Richard and Philip II in the 3rd crusade, they marched through France first and then sailed at Italy). Alternatively you could start from Caen, march toward the southern France coast, then hire mercenary ships to carry your men to the holy land. But beware of this method because the mercenary ships are mostly of poor quality (cogs) and would be in trouble when facing any naval oppositions.

It is troublesome for English forces to reach the Holy land entirely by sea. Sailing around the Iberian penisular will lose you massive amount of men. In my opinion the best method is still to do a bit of travelling by foot and then by ship, instead of getting there entirely on foot.

[Seabourch]

Where the hell do men go when they desert from a ship? Do they drown or suddenly gain the ability to work on one water like a certain Jew 2000 years ago?

[Rahwana]

That's why I favour Jihad over Crusade.... DIE INFIELS!!!! (jihad was more potent to be abused than crusade)

[G. Septimus]

Where the hell do men go when they desert from a ship? Do they drown or suddenly gain the ability to work on one water like a certain Jew 2000 years ago?

maybe they escape using the boats on the ship. kind of weird though
well, Jihad's were for Islamic factions that defend they're land were more succsessful then the Crusades. Crusading armies need to sail or march from a long distance

[Quintus.JC]

maybe they escape using the boats on the ship. kind of weird though
well, Jihad's were for Islamic factions that defend they're land were more succsessful then the Crusades. Crusading armies need to sail or march from a long distance

Historically so, but in the game a Jihad could carry you all the way to Paris or London. So it's not necessarily just the long distance marches for the crusaders.

[Prussian to the Iron]

Historically so, but in the game a Jihad could carry you all the way to Paris or London. So it's not necessarily just the long distance marches for the crusaders.

you also dont get any punishment for doing nothing, and you usually are the one to call them.

[Cute Wolf]

That's why I favour Jihad over Crusade.... DIE INFIELS!!!! (jihad was more potent to be abused than crusade)

Meh, befriend the Pope, and getting stable alliance between Catholics is the better idea with the crusade..... After that, I'll launch a crusade on your lands and clear your force away from earth!

Ehem... seriously, both has their own strength and weakness... Crusade needs to be coordinated... but in turn, gaining acess to better traits and gifts (good for RP). Jihad in the other hands sent your troops directly into the fray and only got "holy warriors" with less side traits.... (You couldn't RP drunken master becomes the Holiest Men on earth with Jihad, wait... true muslims don't drinks! )

[Quintus.JC]

you also dont get any punishment for doing nothing, and you usually are the one to call them.

Exactly. I once tried to mass migrate my Turks to Frace; called the jihad at Paris and marched through all of Europe to get there. Muslim factions can serious exploit this system.

[Rahwana]

Exactly. I once tried to mass migrate my Turks to Frace; called the jihad at Paris and marched through all of Europe to get there. Muslim factions can serious exploit this system.

Roleplaying horde factions as in BI?

[Quintus.JC]

Roleplaying horde factions as in BI?

Yup. When you put it that way, this is actually quite similar to the faction migrations of in BI. Obviously the Mongols do just that in MII:TW as well.

It was one of my rather unorthodox approach to the game. It was meant to be experimental; seeing that I normally just turtle around and let others develope as much as they want.

[Zild]

...for this reason, you should never send a crusade to the middle east by ship around the Iberian peninsula from northern Europe...

unfortunately this is really the only way to do it from England; i once tried to sai a crusading army from london to Jerusalem, and somehow people still deserted, even when i was just trying to sail around france.

It is troublesome for English forces to reach the Holy land entirely by sea. Sailing around the Iberian penisular will lose you massive amount of men.

As an avid England / Scotland player, I have to disagree (although I certainly wouldn't try it from Denmark!) I have sent numerous successful crusades to Antioch and Jerusalem without suffering any deserters. Although I also admit I have on occasion been less lucky...

Sailing from Ireland or the western coast of Britain seems to make a substantial difference; from the eastern coast you not only start a considerable amount closer, you also have to spend longer going away from the target.

For me the big problem with crusades is losing the general - especially as the pope has a nasty habit of demanding that my frail old king lead the way. For this reason I always give armies on a long crusade a noble second in command, to take over should the leader fall.

Interestingly the key to success in my current campaign appears to be failed crusades...

The Pope demands I break my alliance with the heathens of Milan. I tell him, if he's serious about their blasphemy he should excommunicate them. He does so, prompting another of my allies to sends a crusade against Milan and allowing me to break the alliance with lesser loss of reputation*. Milan's three cities being all nicely lined up from north to south at this stage, my crusading army experiences few problems toppling them one after another. Except, however, it's leader's valiant but foolhardy attack to the enemy general's rear whilst storming the second city, which lost him his life. Without a backup leader (for this was a short crusade upon which my general could never possibly die!) the men considered dessertion. Instead, they rallied for the cause and took Milan's final city - the crusade's objective - in an act of heroics and faith truly unexpected amongst such commoners. Not that the Pope recognised their achievements, of course...

*Slight asides: Which causes more damage to reputation? Choosing one ally above another when they go to war, or cancelling an alliance through diplomacy without offering compensation? Also, what happens if you ignore the "Allies at war" message and refuse to take sides?

[Cute Wolf]

AFAIK, choosing better reputated ally over bad one won't give you any reputation hit. Fighting on behalf of trustworthy faction against dubious dubious faction is almost guaranteed to deal no damage to your reputation, but beware, you'll get reputation hit if you try to favor a bad one over the good one.

Oh yeah... cancelling alliance without pope order (if the pope orders you... it won't give you a reputation hit of course... blame the pope for that... I've get most of my allies become enemy from pope's order!), will always result in reputation hit, but if you break it via diplomatic option, the penalty is less severe than breaking it on the field / sea.

[Zild]

Oh, so Papal order prevents any loss of reputation? I guess that makes sense, although it removes something of an interesting challenge!

[Cute Wolf]

Oh, so Papal order prevents any loss of reputation? I guess that makes sense, although it removes something of an interesting challenge!

The challenge is eventually, Pope orders you to sewer all your alliances except to him and his motherland.....
If you gradually move and keep your own men as pope, there should be no problem... hey, the key to get a good diplomatic stance in M2TW vanilla is getting your hands as much as available on the pope...

[Zild]

What about when the Pope orders you to blockade an ally's port (as he did to me last night)? Would my reputation suffer as a result of declaring war on an ally, or does "The Pope told me to do it!" warrant sufficient defence?

[_Tristan_]

You'd take a reputation hit whether or not it came from a Papal order. Best course of actions IMHO is to spend a few coins to counter the hit to your Papal reputation rather than endanger your alliance with your ally, as this would start you down the slope of untrustworthiness, which would make it difficult to regain your ally or add some other ones.

So just ignore the Papal order and offer him some coin, lands or anything to make him happy (not discounting young and virgin girls...j/k)

[Zild]

Thanks for that. That was actually the plan I was going for, albeit without the bit about keeping the Pope sweet - he likes me enough already!

[Tabuu]

If I recall, the original question was "How do I crusade?", yes? If so, to have an army join the crusade you must have a general/family member leading the army. If you right-click on their portrait, there will be a button on the bottom of the scroll that reads "Join the crusade." Push this button and your units will turn dark turquoise-like and a white cross will appear on their unit cards. In addition, your recruitment queue will have new units to recruit, ones that are specially designed for the crusade. And finally, your general (on the campaign map) will have a red cross on top of his banner. If you take the targeted city, you will be rewarded with florins and upgrades for 20- 30 units from the pope

[Iberia Auxilia]

Does the reward for the successful crusade include giving xp. to the units from the homeland and not taking part in the crusades.

[Ethelred Unread]

No - Just troops that are "on crusade".

[Sebastian Seth]

With the desertion I do this;

Just take small army with you that you can lose, take what ever route is the fastest, then recruit new army from the islands on the way and right when landing.

With jihads I do this;

Call one when ever you can (even on rebel settlements), have all your generals to join one, recruit all the cheap and good units you can, take the settlement with the army you first moved near it. = A lot of cheap forces.

[Tabuu]

I also forgot to mention that nations at war with you (excluding Islamic ones) will not attack any of your units or settlements while you are on the crusade. Big plus if you're on the receiving end. But Venice might be dumb enough to do that so watch out. >.>

Rewards for success: 1. Florins from the Pope.
2. Experience for 20 or so troops. (As Unread said)
3. Not sure but I believe you also get extra troops.

I may be wrong but hey: who isn't?

[Myth]

I also forgot to mention that nations at war with you (excluding Islamic ones) will not attack any of your units or settlements while you are on the crusade. Big plus if you're on the receiving end. But Venice might be dumb enough to do that so watch out. >.>

Not true. As England i got backstabbed by a France whom i had marriage alliance with as soon as i moved on my crusade. Even if France was wholely envelopped by my territories and was four times smaller. So no, being on a Crusade doesn't mean jack sh*t to the AI, except that it sees your armies marching away from your lands.

[_Tristan_]

Fact is that the troops on Crusade are inviolate to other Catholic kingdoms much like any Catholic cities are inviolate from same Crusading armies (though there is a workaround for this : separate your Crusading general from its stack, have him leave the Crusade, siege the Catholic city, then have the stack join him at the walls and have him join the Crusade back... and voila !!)

Rewards for success:
1. Florins from the Pope.
2. Experience for 20 or so troops. (As Unread said)
3. Not sure but I believe you also get extra troops.

1 - True (depending on the number of generals/units having joined the Crusade, the more the better the reward...)
2 - Experience (one chevron per successful crusade is given to all Crusading units) is not limited to 20 or so. One good way to provide experience to all units is to have as many of your generals and units join the Crusade in the turn when you're ready to assault the Crusade target (every unit that joined in this way will gain the experience bonus from the Pope, even if it didn't take one step towards the target...). Hence no risk of desertion and no need to walk over half the world to gain experience...
3 - Nope : no extra troops on completion of crusade but during the crusade and while it lasts you have access to a larger and better-quality mercenary pool.