Re: The Thirty Years War
Well, would you rather switzerland have it or a neutral party?Btw @ Spain, there's no way you can justify me ceding Savoy, seeing as you were so opposed to ceding Central Italy to a new, neutral state.
I dont know. I guess I might sit my armies on your borders and block any army from getting through untill this is settled.What if Switzerland is the one blocking that peace deal?
Last edited by Greyblades; 12-16-2009 at 22:35.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Originally Posted by Strike For The South
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: The Thirty Years War
I didn't say that. I'm still being polite to you, and I'm just asking a question.
Sorry, this just made me Lol, because you think it's OK to give to the Dutch, but not for the French to have it
Sure; wanna swap?
What if Switzerland is the one blocking that peace deal?
Switzerland has already gained land. Venice and Milan ring any bells?
Btw @ Spain, there's no way you can justify me ceding Savoy, seeing as you were so opposed to ceding Central Italy to a new, neutral state.
That's not a fair deal. Switzerland does not have any justification whatsoever to owning Savoy. Why is Switzerland suddenly now dictating terms? This is exactly what I meant when I said "Woe betide anyone who think that their land should not belong to Switzerland".
I call Switzerland's bluff. Switzerland has no right to hold Europe to ransom like this, seeing as it is tiny, it's army is puny, it's economy non-existent. I have agreed to terms the rest of Europe considers fair.
I SWEAR TO GOD FRANCE TAKE THE DEAL. I am not kidding around any more. It is a perfectly acceptable treaty, and if you don't take it I am done. You get back EVERY hex in the triprovince of France, and all you lose is Savoy.
I have nothing against the Swiss. This is fair enough all things considering. Take the deal.I am done discussing this. You accept it, or I leave.
That or make is a separate kingdom. that is the only two options.
Last edited by Cultured Drizzt fan; 12-16-2009 at 22:35.
Micheal D'Anjou
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: The Thirty Years War
I didn't see that post before I replied.
What is wrong with the treaty you and me agreed on? The one where everyone except greedy Switzerland are happy?
Ofc, Me + Northern Alliance and Spain could sign a seperate treaty.
I'm not the one obstructing the peace deal. If we're going to use that logic, Spain and Turkey should cease aid to Switzerland.
Probably. He has a three year old son, so he's probably going nuts.
@CDF
I can't believe you're letting Switzerland threaten you like that. If Switzerland refuses to be logical, then I'll just beat it into him until he realises that Savoy is never going Swiss. I won't take an Inch of Swiss territory with the intent to keep it that I described on the map as belonging to Switzerland. That is, of course, only if Switzerland refuses to accept that increasing in size by 200% actually counts as "compensation".
Last edited by Subotan; 12-16-2009 at 22:42.
Re: The Thirty Years War
I just want the war over......
You have a point. I was a bit emotional when I read the posts. I will stand by you for now.....
But I want this thing settled.
Last edited by Cultured Drizzt fan; 12-16-2009 at 22:41.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: The Thirty Years War
I took note of the change in your offer, England, and amended the amendment to my amended offer.I just want the war over......
You have a point. I was a bit emotional when I read the posts. I will stand by you for now.....
But I want this thing settled.Ok, so I combined the offers from Saxony and England into one, I sent the deal to you guys to look over.
The Dutch agreed to their part, the Swiss/ottomans/Spanish agreed to their part, I added in the English and Saxon parts, so the only issue remaining is the French. Let me know if you guys consider it to be fair. I reduced it by a further 10K from what I was about to propose.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Re: The Thirty Years War
I do as well! I was about to put pen to paper to sign that treaty with Spain when Switzerland burst into the room making insane demands. I have compromised again and again and again and again, and Switzerland still wants more. That is not diplomacy, that is an inferiority complex.I just want the war over......
EDIT:So everyone agrees to the original proposal, including me, and then you all let yourself be blackmailed by this little banking gnome? Ignore him, as he can't take my territory if he refuses to sign the original territory, and if you do agree to his deal, he'll be after your land next.The Dutch agreed to their part, the Swiss/ottomans/Spanish agreed to their part, I added in the English and Saxon parts, so the only issue remaining is the French. Let me know if you guys consider it to be fair. I reduced it by a further 10K from what I was about to propose.
Last edited by Subotan; 12-16-2009 at 22:48.
Re: The Thirty Years War
PM'd you about it before and sure, I will swap it with the one below. I even believe Saxony would be interested in buying that from you, if you want to sell it.
Days since the Apocalypse began
"We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" | How to spot a Humanist
"Men of Quality do not fear Equality." | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs."
Re: The Thirty Years War
France..... Please just take the treaty. All we are asking of you is Savoy. That is it. The Swiss won't settle for anything less. I am offering to hand over the last few pieces of France in the mix, something I assure you I would not normally do.
I am willing to forgive any debts you may have to me, and pay a further 10,000 to pay you for Savoy.
I am just tired of this whole thing..... Accept the deal.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: The Thirty Years War
The Swiss are only doing that because you're showing weakness in the thread. If you act as strong as your position actually is, unless they're stupid (Which I know they're not), then they'll back down.
And yet you're still going to pay them? My God, they must be brainwashing you all through your monitors or something.I am offering to hand over the last few pieces of France in the mix, something I assure you I would not normally do.
I'm willing, if you press for the original deal, to pay for all the original debts.
Or, we could all just tell Switzerland to STFU. There's no reason why anyone should have to bow to Switzerland's demands.
Re: The Thirty Years War
Maybe that's because Savory is 5 hexes and Central Italy is 12? Or is it because Spain actually had to take Italy, whereas you got a total freebie, expending no manpower whatsoever?Btw @ Spain, there's no way you can justify me ceding Savoy, seeing as you were so opposed to ceding Central Italy to a new, neutral state.
Last edited by Double A; 12-16-2009 at 22:59.
Re: The Thirty Years War
The number of Hexes is irrelevant. It's the principle behind it.
Spain just marched up into Central Italy. He didn't lose any lives whatsoever.
I fail to see how my "demands" are ridiculous, seeing as how everyone had agreed to them before Switzerland came along. Switzerland is the problem now, and it should not be dictating to the rest of Europe that their agreements are void just because Switzerland says so.
Last edited by Subotan; 12-16-2009 at 23:03.
Re: The Thirty Years War
And since when is getting a gift the same as taking land? What planet are you from?
Upkeep ring any bells?
Even from a third-party standpoint, the terms are amazingly generous! If you can't get that through your French skull then there's no reason for diplomacy!
Re: The Thirty Years War
Everyone has agreed to the deal except for France.
Signees-Greetings honored delegates from England, Saxony, and the Netherlands. Greetings honored allies from Spain, the Ottoman Empire, and Austria.
You all are directly or indirectly involved in this battle between myself and France, as well as the allied parties who were dragged into it.
England has offered 20,000 gold in order to pay for France's war costs inflicted upon Switzerland, plus an additional 5K in order for us to stop talking to them, for a total of 25K.This part was changed due to in-thread activity.
The Dutch are willing to loan/finance the rest of France's obligations to the Swiss.
This covers the war debt we've accumulated and allows us to exit this war with dignity, and with a solvent bank account. Thank you. Not only that, you've greatly impressed the Swiss with your generosity and your diplomatic skill. You will continue to have a friend in Switzerland, and I will be most displeased should you ever be mistreated by another nation. I consider your intervention on the behalf of France to be bold, brave, and honorable. All is forgiven regarding the sudden declaration of war as well, England. We simply ask for more explicit warning should our relations ever again deteriorate to that point.
Austria has given the Swiss gifts of gold to cover our costs, as have the Saxons, the English, the Spanish, and especially the Ottomans. Some of these were in the form of loans to be repaid, others as gifts. Our allies have offered us diplomatic as well as military aid. Some of our friends have now sided with the French for the sake of peace and balance of power, and this we understand and can forgive, especially when they have been so instrumental in helping to achieve this remarkable peace agreement, and talking on behalf of the interests of France, even when it has been difficult. For this, we thank you again.
The proposed agreement from the dutch was agreed to by the Swiss, and needs to be endorsed by the involved parties:
The Dutch
The English
The French
------
The Spanish
The Swiss
The Ottomans
And of course if Austria or Saxony wishes to add anything, they may. However Saxony has already expressed a desire to see the war end by any means, as long as it satisfies the English, and the Austrians have not requested any specific terms and haven't gotten that involved.
The PEACE TREATY as negotiated will involve the following agreements:
1. England is to allocate 15,000 gold to the Swiss to help pay for our reconstruction, and to facilitate the peace. The French will of course owe the English for this consideration, but I consider that to be a private matter between England and France. (Note, this part has been amended in accordance with what I saw in the thread... this would include Saxony's 5K offer for a total of 15k)
2. The Dutch are to loan or gift the French 15,000 gold to cover Swiss debts. They do this because they are interested in peace as well, and wish this pointless conflict to end. In order to ensure that nothing happens to threaten this peace, we ask that the funds go directly to the Swiss, not to France.
3. The Spanish and the Swiss forces will withdraw from Paris, and all french forts. Much of France will be restored to the French king's control.
4. Savoy will go to the Swiss.
5. France withdraws all claims to Italy and all attempts to create an Umbrian Kingdom.
6. Spain, the Ottomans, and the Swiss will not attack France, England, the Dutch, or Saxony for 5 turns, and vice versa. (I can assure you I won't anyway.... but some insisted on this provision so I agree. There's no implied threat here, it should have been obvious that it was implied we wouldn't go to war again for any reason unless we or our allies were attacked.)
7. Should France or Swiss attack the other, the allies of the aggressor nation will break their alliance with the aggressor nation because of the violation of this peace agreement, and wash their hands of whatever happens to that nation. Switzerland is asking for this, because we view the French as untrustworthy and a bully. Please withdraw support from France if they attack us again in violation of this agreement.
8. The French/Spanish border is restored to pre-war terms.
(Greyblades, I'd argue you deserve more than that. However, it is your call sir.)
9. The English/Dutch/French/Saxon borders are an internal matter for them to decide amongst themselves. Switzerland, Ottomans, and Spanish aren't concerned how you draw your borders.
10. Any party breaking this agreement for any reason will by their actions allow anyone to dissolve their alliance with the said party without any diplomatic penalty. A broken peace agreement undermines the foundation of alliances, which is mutual trust.
-----------------------------------------
The Leader of the Swiss Confederation agrees to abide by the conditions above, and pledges never to break this agreement. The Swiss leader also offers his personal wish for peace, and offers to never attack anyone here unless they attack Switzerland of their allies.
*OFFICIAL SEAL OF THE SWISS ROYAL FAMILY*
-Askthepizzaguy-
Switzerland/Askthepizzaguy
Ottomans/Double A
Spain/Greyblades
England/Cultured Drizzt Fan
Saxony/Centurion1
Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 12-16-2009 at 23:10.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Re: The Thirty Years War
Well I did have to buy a couple of mercs.Spain just marched up into Central Italy. He didn't lose any lives whatsoever.
Eh anyway you guys sort this rot out among yourself and tell me when I have to sign the dotted line.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: The Thirty Years War
I'm ready to sign a dotted line with you right now, setting both our borders at the map I posted.
Re: The Thirty Years War
So, you're saying the only deal you will sign is the one only you support, while you leave 5 countries, who have unanimously agreed on what is best for everyone, hanging back in the dust?
I'm curious, should I declare war on him now or wait till CDF and Centurion break off their alliance?
Re: The Thirty Years War
Screw this, I can't believe you've been blackmailed bying Switzerland. I compromise, and I compromise, and I compromise, and I compromise, and I compromise, and I compromise, and I compromise, and you give me that piece of
Last edited by Subotan; 12-16-2009 at 23:20.
Re: The Thirty Years War
The ghost of Charles Emmanuel I, former Duke of Savoy appears before Subotan:
Wooo! My beqeauth was to the Kingdom of France, if you give my gift away I will haunt all Kings of your line until your Kingdom whithers and dies. Woooo! Don't let my people fall under the evil pizza inspired influence of the Swiss. Woooo!
Re: The Thirty Years War
That's the main reason why I wasn't going to surrender it; it was a gift from JH, meaning that comparisons between Central Italy and Normandy were meaningless. Ofc, since I was RPing, I couldn't say that, so I kept stressing the word inherited. However, nobody here seemed to have got that. Huh.
Last edited by Subotan; 12-16-2009 at 23:23.
Re: The Thirty Years War
Well we are giving you the option to give it back to JH instead of pizza.
Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: The Thirty Years War
Gentlemen,
From a moderator's point of view, there has been almost a week and several hundred posts of discussion going nowhere. It appears to me that, until Ibn-Khaldun returns, you have reached the point where nothing is going to be resolved. If you honestly believe that you can come to an agreement in the game, carry on. Otherwise, please consider giving us a holiday favor and cutting down on the volume (especially the increasing nastiness).
Many thanks.
Last edited by GeneralHankerchief; 12-16-2009 at 23:26.
"I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
"Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
"I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006
Re: The Thirty Years War
If JH is willing to, sure. If we discover some long lost relative of Charles Emmanuel I.
I agree, but it is so amazingly frustrating, you have no idea.
Re: The Thirty Years War
Unfortunately I can't really join back in, I am using a borrowed computer and may not have it for long so I don't want to join games I will likely have to drop out of quickly. What happened with I-K?
Re: The Thirty Years War
I read what GH said, but I have to point this out.Screw this, I can't believe you've been blackmailed by
Your definition of "compromise" is "give me all my land back and you can have a tiny bit of land and I won't attack you any more"
A compromise is when you do something agreeable to both sides, and unless you're the freaking Roman Empire fighting one Gallic tribe, you typically have to give up something if you want peace.
And you are definitely NOT the Roman Empire.
Re: The Thirty Years War
I am just done.I am going with the Swiss cause I want this over, and frankly France for most of the past week it has been your stalling that stopped any treaty from going forward. What you call compromise most people call stonewalling and wasting time. I prefer to just go with the Swiss on this one,
If you are leaving because of that then that is up to you
Personally I would be thankful you are getting out of this with all of traditional France under your control.But this has been discussed to death, I am done now.
I am sorry Subotan. Really
Last edited by Cultured Drizzt fan; 12-16-2009 at 23:45.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Re: The Thirty Years War
I would prefer Subotan stay, and I wish to state for the record and publicly it was never my intention to upset him and I apologize if I have. I have been attempting to play the game as a stubborn Swiss guy, and I hope it has not leaked into anything too OOC.
I will still be rather aggressive in my negotiations and stuff, but I really want to draw a line between that and anything unrelated to gaming. I respect you Subotan and I don't wish to cause a problem.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Re: The Thirty Years War
sorry france. i have not signed YET!!! (tricky swiss) but i am planning on it.
it really is a good deal.
Re: The Thirty Years War
Ah my apologies for jumping the gun; I took it from your public affirmation of the 5,000 gold and that you'd end the war when England did, that you'd already de facto agreed to the deal.
But yes Saxony hadn't signed it yet.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Re: The Thirty Years War
yes i am signing it but i f it does not go through iwant nothing of this war with france. i have no serious qualms about them and will not fight.
Re: The Thirty Years War
No problems there. At that point that's pretty much all we would ask of you is to stand back.
#Winstontoostrong
#Montytoostronger
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
- Horseman of the 
Bookmarks