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Thread: The Shogun Honor Society

  1. #1
    Senior Member Senior Member Obake's Avatar
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    Obake

    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Senior Member Kurando's Avatar
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    (Of course some of us spell it "honour", but what the heck.)

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    Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence

  3. #3
    Senior Member Senior Member Zen Blade's Avatar
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    Don't give in to those dang non-Americans, Obake! They just want to add extra vowels to try and confuse our beautiful language!

    If they can't handle having to pronounce "o" a dozen different ways, without any indication as to when it is supposed to be pronounced in a particular way, their loss.

    lol.

    has anyone else ever wondered how and why we actually put up with our language.

    btw, while on the topic...
    do you guys think any other country has spelling bees?? I think one of the reasons why spelling bees in our country are so big is that most of us (myself included)couldn't differentiate between words like

    loose, lose, loss, etc... if our lives depended upon it.

    or, noose, nose... noose and loose match... but lose and nose don't...

    If anyone can explain this, please do.

    For the record, loose-- "I like to wear loose-fitting clothing"
    lose "you lose, get off my property" (simpsons' quote)
    loss- "the loss to the enemy was a devastating blow"

    : )

    -Zen Blade

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    Zen Blade Asai
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    Zen Blade Asai
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    Derelict from an older age.

  4. #4
    Member Member Anssi Hakkinen's Avatar
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    There's no saving it, your language has been corrupted since prehistorical times. Start speaking Finnish, there is no possibility of spelling mistakes there.

    But, eh.

    As Kurando-sama posted on the mainpage, the Honor Society has the full support of .Org, and probably of every honest STW site anywhere. Go forth, and let the bright flame of your honor illuminate the Community! Two thumbs up!

    ------------------
    "5. Makoto: utter sincerity; truthfulness."

    [This message has been edited by Anssi Hakkinen (edited 06-01-2001).]
    "It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this".
    - Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure

  5. #5
    Member Member theforce's Avatar
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    Well is something the community needed. New things are welcome every now and then :P

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  6. #6
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    Hey there!
    Yeah this will be great

    Instead of making a shit list or whatever think positive and make a list of honouale folks!

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  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
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    well done, obake! yes, about time we started awarded for the good and not just trying to penalize the bad.

    zen, english/american has always been murdered. prolly the worst ones are 'they're', 'their', and 'there', and 'you're' and 'your'. add in shortened 'net-speak' and it gets even worse. i use 'yer' for 'you're' and 'your' while others use 'ur'.

    but since the forum police are 'prolly' watching, i'll just say again, well done, obake! :)

    'thx',

    K.

    (you shld start a topic in off-topic, zen, on our murdered language. it really can be hilarious. i mean, george carlin made a very nice living on citing the goofiness of our language)

  8. #8
    Senior Member Senior Member LordTed's Avatar
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    Cool honoured ppl add me to the top plz

    (joke)

    [This message has been edited by LordTed (edited 06-01-2001).]

  9. #9
    Member Member Magyar Khan's Avatar
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    Sainbanuu

    as a messenger from my Great Khan i can tell u he fully supports the idea behind the Society. Until the moment that all unwanted elements are hunted down he wont join the society. This may seem odd but the Society doesnt allow him to approach these certain elements as he likes to do it. Mongol style.

    The words below are written by himself:

    "dear Obake, as a member of the Mongol Society of Ethics and Warfare I fully support your society and will be helpfull to ensure it will grow in size and skill

    may wisdom be your guide

    Magyar Khan"

    hmmm, that sounded nice. where is my bow? .....yep....Greetings
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  10. #10
    Member Member DarkSword's Avatar
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    I just want to drop by and say what you guys are doing is great...but will this society alienate the community in term of elitetism..."we are better more honor ...etc"....discuss among yourselves....

    Back to the darkside

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member Obake's Avatar
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    Khan's Cham,

    Your message is welcome and please take our humble thanks back to your Khan. You may also remind him that the decision not to join was his.

    Your Khan wrote to Obake saying that while he agreed with the guidelines set forth by the society, he felt that he could not live up to all of those guidelines and as such chose not to join the Society.

    ------------------
    Obake

    I warned you, but did you listen? Ohh, no...it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?

    [This message has been edited by Obake (edited 06-01-2001).]
    Obake

    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.


  12. #12
    Member Member Hitodama's Avatar
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    Great idea! Nice site too.

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  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    I fail to see the benefit of this... So, if a player that is listed as 'honorable' is proven to be dishonorable, what happens to them? Are they simply not listed anymore? That would be a detriment to any player not fortunate enough to be 'recognized' by others, for they too would dwell in the shadows of the dishonorable in which your 'list' would cast them in by simply excluding their name.

    For this to work, EVERY SINGLE PLAYER would have to be listed somehow WITHOUT exception! I do not see this happening without EA's direct involvment. Therefore, this seems nothing but a well-intentioned reverse-witch-hunt. But call it what it really is: a popularity contest or an 'honor' pageant! In the end, nothing is accomplished, for the same group of people will see themselves basking in the glory of their recognition and viewing anybody else as dishonorable scum -- basically, what we have right now: clicks of folks that play within their group and never face anybody new...

    And who controls who gets on the 'favorable' list anyways? Would this player be a controling party of this honor league? What if they were found to have questionable ethics or what-not? Would the wannabe-dogooder have to lobby for consideration for induction into the honor lists? Geez, that sounds absurd! Wait for others to 'nominate' them? Geez, thats even worse, for that day will likely never come! For proof of this, just ask yourselves how many nominations have I received so far for the 'greatest, most honorable player' award? And I think self-nominations should not be used, for they are inherently self-centered, and of questionable objectivity.

    ANd what happens to those that are maliciously slandered by evildoers that just want to ruin their good names? What policies/procedures exist to verify/examine accusations of dishonorable conduct? Or honorable conduct too, for that matter? What recourse to people have to challenge accusations of impropriety listed on your site?

    And, how would you track different player names without EA? So if a dishonorable player is spotted, but he creates 100 additional nicks, how then can you truly track this individual? This would turn everybody into a cop here, and nobody would have fun -- which is what this is about -- 'cause they'd be on the lookout for 1. the 'honorable' players to play and 2. the 'dishonorable' players to avoid and report!

    Might as well start building that cyber-gulag now! For I fear its halls will be swiftly filled with the blood and tears of innocent samurai wrongly convicted of crimes they never committed!

    I think your intentions are good, but flawed in its implementation. Thats my 39 cents (29 cents on Wednesdays)... But best of luck to youz, and may my name never live in infamy on your lists...



    [This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 06-01-2001).]
    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  14. #14
    Senior Member Senior Member BlackWatch McKenna's Avatar
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    I like this idea alot.
    // Black

    // "Did we win?"

  15. #15
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    Oh, yeah! One more thing! Show me the errors of my thoughts and I too shall embrace this idea...

    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  16. #16
    Member Member Steeleye's Avatar
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    Zen-blade - not to put too fine a point on it, mate, but what language do you speak again?....uhum.... I rest my case ('our' language indeed, pah!)

    HonoUr Society - yeh, sounds like a good idea, although, as Vanya points out, you'll have to think carefully about how you include and 'disclude' people. Also have to be very careful that it doesn't just become some old-fart cliquey gentleman's club which excludes new players.

    Saying this, I'm sure that Kyodaihood will want to have some input into it. Nice one.

    Kyodaispan
    All Honour to the Brothers!

  17. #17
    Member Member evilc's Avatar
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    yay at last, not sure what this things about yet, but count me in YAY

    well done to whoever finally did something about online shogun (sort of)

  18. #18
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    I don't think an honorable person would be put off if they are not included in the Society. Not being in the Society should not be taken to mean you lack honor. It simply means your honor has not been recognized (yet).

    Magyar's situation is a fascinating catch-22. His refusal to join the Society is incredibly honorable in that he recognizes his own inability to live up to the code.

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  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member ShaiHulud's Avatar
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    Mariko posted this on her site, re: English contortions...
    http://pub45.ezboard.com/fromanarmyt...picID=88.topic

    ------------------
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    O stranger, Go tell the Spartans that we lie here, obedient to their will.....

  20. #20
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Gregoshi:
    ...Not being in the Society should not be taken to mean you lack honor...
    [/QUOTE]

    Ahem... that is EXACTLY how I would see my exclusion! And I would be infuriated if I found my ability to play online jeopardized from being excluded even if, as you say, my honor had yet to be 'recognized'...

    With things like this, perception is everything. Even if the list indicates exactly what you stated above, others could perceive their exclusion as a declaration of dishonor. And no matter how well you try to explain yourself, there will always be those that fail to grasp your concepts. This here is the abyss before we stand.

    I, for one, think that the list of people on this list will be comprised of the same old people as always -- as you say, a clique of old peeps in a 'gentleman's club' aimed at discriminating against the rest of the player community.

    AND... the occurrence of players with attitude problems is far more prevalent than cheaters/etc. Why should somebody be listed even when they are rude/mean to others? They could be the best player, most honorable opponent, and still be a cheap foyer-spammer! Why should they get recognized?

    Like I said before, it is just a popularity contest -- nothing more. Just one that carries a stigma if you are not graced by it.

    And if it were a 'true' honor society, membership would not be an issue. The whole idea of membership denotes its nature as a clique or aristocratic club... To be truly honorable, it must be blind to the individual and apply to all equally. Given the initial list, I'd say the society has a loong road ahead to acheive this goal... Surely there are more players than that that are regarded by the elitist panel to be 'honorable'...

    (BTW, where do I send my koku to to ensure I am on the 'good' list???)

    lol


    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  21. #21
    Member Member DarkSword's Avatar
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    Vanya...I think they want to be know as a separate but equal thing......heheehhe...but I could be wrong I think there was one of those period in USA history....and we knew how that went....it is an honorable intention but the outcome might not be what it was meant to be.....GL.....
    Back to the darkside

  22. #22
    Member Member Magyar Khan's Avatar
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    oooof my Great Khan of Khans is deeply dissapointed that his former private writing appears here in well chosen parts. He thinks u got the best intentions while doing so. but as a guardian of honor u should know how and when to be discrete. I hope my Khan will accept it since u have this new role but editing your message would be strongly advised.

    sigh.... what a start!
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  23. #23
    Member Member Magyar Khan's Avatar
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    ha Obake that is quick, may your decisions and movement be as quick on teh battlefield.
    Clan Wolves: 10 years in Total War
    visit us at wolves.magyarkhan.org
    and youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/ClanWolves
    and watch a Creative Assembly employee struggle in battle....

  24. #24
    Senior Member Senior Member Obake's Avatar
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    I would like to take a moment to offer up my apologies to MagyarKhan. In my response to "MagyarKhan's Cham" I quoted directly from a private E-mail discussion between myself and Magy.

    Although done only with the intention of pointing out Magyar's choice not to join the Honor Society and the quite valid reason for his decision, it was wrong of me to do so.

    It is my hope that Magy will accept this apology with all of the gravity that it is offerred.

    I have done wrong by you my friend, I apologize and hope that you will choose to forgive me.

    Obake
    Obake

    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.


  25. #25
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    ok the core members are not only honourable but also made a considerable positive effect to the shogun community...

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  26. #26
    Member Member RageFury's Avatar
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    heheh..nice idea but as Slice says u gotta be careful with it....it is only one step from here into elitism

    on another note.. Magy can i just ask what this whole "MagyarKhans Cham" is all about..i get the idea and i admit it does sound quite cool and gives me a laugh... but u don't u think it is takin this GAME entirely too seriously?? Just a question no offence intended...


    -Fury

    [This message has been edited by RageFury (edited 06-01-2001).]
    "The only certainties in life are that we are born and we die. The rest is just a sea of complexity"

  27. #27
    Senior Member Senior Member Zen Blade's Avatar
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    First off,

    Vanya, mate... again....
    I question your motives. I rarily see you do anything in a constructive sense. You always seem to be full of criticisms and rarily seem to take the time to consider why such a thing has been done. You seem to enjoy assuming the worse in everyone and everything that people create. I wonder if you also believe... nm, I will hold my tongue. Anyways, I think if you take a step back and look at the society from a community viewpoint, you will see the potentially great benefits of such a thing.

    Mag,
    Everyone I know respected your decision not to be included.

    Others,

    This is a society in the sense that a number of honorable individuals got together and said, "we should make a group that PROMOTES honor"...

    Those who started this and the other core members were selected b/c they are known to be honorable individuals and to carry themselves in an honorable fashion. This DOES NOT mean that we are perfect.

    New members will not just be allowed to join. The idea is to include ppl of honor. BUT, if you are not in the group, that does not mean you are dishonorable. It just means that you may not be as well known to all the members of the society as someone else is.

    For example, I was included b/c I am known and have a reputation for being on the up and up. However, some of my Tenki mates (who are all honorable in my opinion) are not nearly as well known and are thus not yet members. (hopefully they will be in the future, but that is up to the entire society) In others words, it will be very hard for those without honor to join, but it will also be tough for those who do not promote acting with honor since it will be harder to know that they act with honor.

    Hopefully this helps explain the society.

    BTW, Steeleye, I am an American... it was merely some self-commentary on the language I speak and how ridiculous some ppl can get when they talk about keeping the language "pure" or proper. I have no problem with correcting pronunciation or spelling mistakes... but in the US (particularly California) there is an ugly movement that seeks to make English the "only" language of the US. (see the first two lines in my post).

    -Zen Blade


    ------------------
    Zen Blade Asai
    Red Devil
    Last of the RSG
    Clan Tenki Council-Unity
    Zen Blade Asai
    Red Devil
    Last of the RSG
    Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
    SHS Core Member, Retired
    Derelict from an older age.

  28. #28
    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    The value of anything depends upon how badly you want it. If you think the Society is a bad idea and shouldn't exist, then it has no value for you. Therefore, why bother with it?

    If the Society starts becoming elitist, the community will know it. Then the Society is no long honorable and it and its members become a joke.

    Also, it is an organization that some players wanted to create. You could start your own group. There is nothing stopping you.

    Personally, I'm more concerned about the conduct of certain people over at the official forum. It has been awhile since I've played online so I can't comment about conduct there.

    ------------------
    Gregoshi
    A Member of Clan Doragon

    [This message has been edited by Gregoshi (edited 06-02-2001).]
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  29. #29
    Member Member Steeleye's Avatar
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    Zen, i was pulling your leg, mate-

    Hell, i need to put smileys next to all my sentences....
    All Honour to the Brothers!

  30. #30
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Zen_Blade:
    ... if you are not in the group, that does not mean you are dishonorable. ... In others words, it will be very hard for those without honor to join, but it will also be tough for those who do not promote acting with honor since it will be harder to know that they act with honor.
    [/QUOTE]

    You forgot those that are not outright recognized. Are you blind Zen to the truth that exclusion from this group will carry with it the perception of dishonor? If I were relatively new, and had never heard of the ORG or the STW community, I would be shamed out of the foyer by people claiming I would be unworthy of being their opponent! As with the criminal system, it is necessary to start with the presumption of honor, and 'convict' those that are proven dishonorable.

    (Vanya speaks these words of wisdom from his world-famous Tai Chi 'Crouching Shih Tzu, Hidden Katana' exercise, in which the master confronts his shadow during a zen-like trance)

    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

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