Russian lies about Poland

[Aemilius Paulus]

Not that I will actually stick around and post in an exercise of futility, but the Poles had a jolly good time slaughtering Russian POW during the Polish-Soviet War. Even more so with the civilians, who were bathed in blood, burned in their villages. The Poles did it; the Soviets did it; the Ukrainians did it. War is hell, especially when it is in the East, where there is little in the way of rules of "honourable" conduct.

Now, it is quite, or more likely, very possible that the Soviets massacred more Poles on the eve of Second World War then the Poles ever succeeding in doing, but I would like to see you insist that the Poles did not initially butcher more of Soviets then you in the 1919-1921 War. Tit for tat .

And yes, I know who you are KrooK, and I am a Russian, and I do realise this is not perhaps the wisest thing I ever did, but what the heel, why not? I can step down any-time I wish...

[Samurai Waki]

What's a Poland?

[Meneldil]

Who cares?

[Louis VI the Fat]

Not that I will actually stick around and post in an exercise of futility, but the Poles had a jolly good time slaughtering Russian POW during the Polish-Soviet War. Even more so with the civilians, who were bathed in blood, burned in their villages. The Poles did it; the Soviets did it; the Ukrainians did it. War is hell, especially when it is in the East, where there is little in the way of rules of "honourable" conduct.

Now, it is quite, or more likely, very possible that the Soviets massacred more Poles on the eve of Second World War then the Poles ever succeeding in doing, but I would like to see you insist that the Poles did not initially butcher more of Soviets then you in the 1919-1921 War. Tit for tat .

And yes, I know who you are KrooK, and I am a Russian, and I do realise this is not perhaps the wisest thing I ever did, but what the heel, why not? I can step down any-time I wish...

I think this is an excellent summary of the subject.

Poland, rather, the more nationalistically inclinent segment of it, wishes to see Poland as the major victim of the 20th century. There is no room left for any criticism of Poland itself.
Reality is that the line between victim and perpetrator was blurred, shifting and depending a good deal on who was on top at any one point, in Europe's cursed first half of the century.


/The ultra-nationalist Polish govenment was defeated in the elections two years ago. Poland has matured, the bizarre wave of ultra-nationalism of a few years ago has already receded in Poland at large. It festers on only as a minority movement.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

While it is certainly true that the Poles committed crimes as well, I am inclined to agree with Krook that the Soviets were extremely cruel in Poland.

[Sarmatian]

Didn't Russia apologized for Katyn recently? Poland and Russia are also supposed to form a joint commission to perform a new research or something like that...

On the whole, I'd say nationalism, especially extreme nationalism is on the decline in eastern Europe.

[Husar]

On the whole, I'd say nationalism, especially extreme nationalism is on the decline in eastern Europe.

I may be simplifying things but I think consumerism and contact with the western world/democracy have a tendency to erode other seemingly rigid structures like nationalism, despotism etc. in many countries, which is probably why our friend Kim Jung Il tries to keep all of it out of his personal sandbox country.

[Conradus]

I may be simplifying things but I think consumerism and contact with the western world/democracy have a tendency to erode other seemingly rigid structures like nationalism, despotism etc. in many countries, which is probably why our friend Kim Jung Il tries to keep all of it out of his personal sandbox country.

Though he himself of course enjoys the benefits of consumerism

[KrooK]

Proofs?
- 7.06.1920 Russians capture Zytomierz = all prisoners of war murdered.
- after capturing village Berdyczów Russians burned alive field hospital with personel and 600 wounded
I strongly advise book called "Niemen 1920"

Paulus - russian prisoners were not murdered (with exeption for Kuban Cossacks after their war crimes became discovered - but they were first to ran so none of them were catched). They died from pandemia despite normal health care. This has been announced by polish - russian historical commusion.
Of course nowadays same people who said if changed her mind (or better - were ordered to change by Kremal order).
On the other hand most of polish prisoners became murdered as soon as they surrendered. Others were not feed - thousands died from starvation. It was official politics of Soviets.

And here I want you remember - POLISH FORCES DURING WAR 1919-1920 DID NOT MURDERED CIVILIANS. Your theory about slaughtering villages should be put behind your dreams. In polish army this is being punished by field court. Soviet loved it. They organised public massacre into every bigger city their captured.

And yes - at the beginning of 90ties Russia officially announced that they are responsible for Katyń. But nowadays their historician are talking that it was good revenge for their poor prisoners or that ... Katyn has never happened. They simply can't accept that into 1939 Soviet Russia was exactly same country like IIIrd Reich. Difference was only that into IIIrd Reich enemy were Jews while into Soviet Russia enemy non communists. As a interesting anegdote I would like to mention some "documentary" movies from Russian TV with interesting theories like:
1. into 1939 Poland was ... "ally of Hitler" and together with him prepared to invasion on Russia
2. Poles into 1920 murdered 80.000 of russians prisoners of war into prison camps (I mentioned earlier that russian historicial officially announced that its not true) - nice especially that poles took 65.000 (cloning?)
3. and one more - into 1941 Poland .... attacked USSR with small support of IIIrd Reich (really)

And Pauls - as you know I'm Pole. And I will never accept lies from your government. No matter what is official policy of Kremal and now matter what thinks typical Russian - truth is always truth and finally will be known. You know it and maybe thats why Russians are so angry when someone mention Katyń.

At the end I would not be myself if I did not reply our dearest French friend. Louis - be pround of your Sarkozy (however I don't think you have reason) but get lost from our government. I told you many times that despite great historical knowledge about West you know nothing about East and you are looking for nazism in every political line that is not similar to French. I don't even think you know role of France into polish - russian war.