How to use infantry bodyguard?

[Julianus]

I always use heavy cavalry bodyguard as ideal hammer, and since I like general camera, it's crucial for generals to be able to move fast enough to arrive in time so I can micromanage several parts of battle line, while infantry bodyguard is unfit for both use I am most familiar with. However I keep hearing people talking about how powerful KH and Sweboz are, also I'm fond of these two people, Saba looks interesting too. But after some test I find their bodyguard somewhat unhandy for my flavor. Any suggestions? How should I modify my style of battle? Thanks.

[Macilrille]

Well, it may be me, but you do not tell us your style of battle

However, the Sweboz generals at least, are the most powerful units the Sweboz have, and considering their ideologi of warrior heroics he should always lead the battle from the front. At least the melee, nobody says he cannot let his skutjonez have a bit of fun first.

However, in general you fight battles with the Sweboz as other infantry factions, just remember that your ethos is heroic and that facing armoured enemies your best weapon is the scare effect of your units (as your archers do no damage to them- see my other thread). Charge him fast and see him rout from fright at your ferocity.

The AAR & Gameplay section has several AARs and I think a few gameplay guides as well. Check them out.

[Julianus]

I generally use hammer and anvil, supported by missile units, and Epeirote or Makedonian generals are good hammers.

You mean all a Sweboz general have to do is to lead his whole army as fast as possible to charge into the enemies? That's simple and cool, at least when it takes effect immediately...

I will check some AARs and guides as you suggested, thanks for the tip.

[Macilrille]

I am talking by and large roleplaying. As you can see in the houserules thread. It is not all you need do. It is much like Roman tactic. H & A is not as appropriate for non-phalanx factions. Charge all infantry in and use skirmishers, lt horse and lt inf to flank and attack on flanks. If forces are even, keep your superior units holding of numerically superior enemies while creating local numeriorical superior numbers and take out some of his low-quality units.

When asking for strategical advice it is always good to check the gameplay and AAR section first. That is where the experts post and then you can elaborate and clarify here.

[Julianus]

Thanks a lot, I'm doing it.

[SwissBarbar]

Hammer + Anvil is the Makedonian (and Diadochi) way of fighting. The Sweboz - and also the early Celts - fight in another manner. They attack in one great and fearsome shock assault, just face to face with the enemy's frontline and try to break through with the first blow. The General - of course - fights in the very first battleline. A Germanic/Celtic General cannot afford to look less brave than his soldiers.

Therefore most Sweboz Generals will die in battle sooner or later. But that's an honour.

[ARCHIPPOS]

hmmmmmm, well you can use them in sieges... in the Greek regions there is NOTHING that can stand against the KH bodyguard in a wall fight (at least during the initial game) ... assign your precious Spartans or Somatophylakes to a siege tower send them up the wall and watch them wreck havock !!!

if the walls are wooden open 2-3 breaches with your rams and rush the bodyguards through the far right or left breach... once they're through , deploy them in a sturdy line facing the enemy and press "stand ground" ... while the enemy slowly marches to meet them in battle hit his flanks with javelins, arrows and slings as he passes by the breaches... in melee your bodyguards will slowly chew the enemy wearing him down ... IF the enemy sends a multitude of units (or a terrifying pike phallanx) against you it's time to use hammer-and-anvil !!!

let ALL the enemy units engage in melee then use your other hoplite contigents to flank him (remember the other two breaches ??? ) ... once you have sandwiched and trapped his units between your FMs and your hoplite infantry the AI ROUTING will be imminent...

also... the KH bodyguard makes ideal Hetairoi-killers... lead them into a narrow city alley ... let them take on the mighty cavalry charge of the Hetairoi and see what happens !!! you can execute hammer-and-anvil even at the final bloody stages of the battle at the city centre ... lure the last block of enemy infantry against your bodyguard then overwhelm him from all sides with everything you've got... surround him and let the numbers wear him down...

you might have noticed that in using Spartans and Somatophylakes like this they actually play the part of the anvil (not the hammer) ... this is because their defence stats and armor are high (low casualty rate) ideal for absorbing enemy pressure - not only they'll take very low casualties saving the rest of your army lives but they autoreplenish them in 2-3 turns...

[Cute Wolf]

adding ARCHIPPOS' suggestion

And watch out for their left flank... once your FM's dead, they will be lost forever.... use cheaper hoplites / dugundiz to cover their left....

[anubis88]

This is what i love about EB... You just can't have a universal tactic that always works with great effect. The H & A does wonder's when playing the diadochi, but you can forget about it playing as Sweboz, Gauls, Romans, Nomads, and even casse or Lusotanna. Triying this with them may cost your general's life pretty soon.

When i played with Infantry bodyguard, i used them much like the golden backup. Once the battle lines clashed, and some of my men gave just a little hole to the enemy, there i would launch my rested general to destroy their's and add to my man's morale...

Or you could just use them as suggested leading the charge.... Like the good days of old

[Amoxcalli]

Additionally, I've found that Saba bodyguard units make decent Elephant killers as well, provided you can back them up with a unit or two of cheap skirmishers. Perhaps moreso with Saba than any other faction, you don't really miss cavalry. Southern Arabia has poor, lightly armoured cavalry. Nothing your archers can't deal with (and if you have Archer-Spearmen, in melee as well).

With Saba, you can pretty much hold a line, fire all your missiles (provided your force has any, but it should, seriously) and then charge. Again, the only Elites you'll find in Arabia will be your bodyguard, at least for the first 40 or so years.

[bobbin]

I generally plant my KH bodyguards in the middle of my line to form a solid center that can hold up against anything. Be careful about leaving them isolated though as all it takes is a cav charge to the left flank and your FM is toast.

[Apázlinemjó]

Usually, with KH, I place the bodyguards on the right flank with elites, because that was the place of honor in the hoplite-stye warfare and my German generals fight in the first line's center.

[johnhughthom]

And watch out for their left flank... once your FM's dead, they will be lost forever.... use cheaper hoplites / dugundiz to cover their left....

Just wanted to emphasise Cute Wolf's point, infantry fms are easy to lose in battle if you don't watch that flank carefully. Even a relatively simple battle can have a disastrous loss of leader if you aren't careful.

[SFraser]

If you are playing as the Sweboz then your general is essentially your elite line troop, like a Solduros or Rycalawre when using their swords but they also have spears which makes them similar to Triarii, while the vast majority of everything else you have at your disposal is a niche support troop.

The general idea is to have your Bodyguard unit, flanked by some Dugunthiz, engage as many of the enemies junk troops as possible and get your hoardes of cheap armour peircing and morale destroying units working from the flanks/rear and on any of the elite troops the enemy has.

While your units are generally poorly equipped they are also very good in melee, mostly armour peircing, cheap, fast and occasionally frightening. A good flank attack from your Slaxonez and these guys are a match for Bataroas while your Dugunthiz are superior to any line spearmen the Gauls can field. All your line troops do superior Javalin damage to the line troops of the Gauls. Your Jugunthiz and the troops you find from your neighbouring regions are all incredibly tough for their roles and cost.

Apart from being a town capturing elite in the early part of the game, your General is essentially the Anvil of your Hammer and Anvil approach in larger battles, intended to provide the rock around which you lay out your pinning troops while the rest of your troops get to work hacking through elites armour, slaughtering decent enemy troops, and destroying their morale. A nice solid line of Familly Members plus Dugunthiz can pin vast chunks of the enemy army and if you sprinkle in a unit of Woithiz Wāthā spearmen next to your General then you are laughing. These guys make Uirodusios look like weaklings.

When you start mixing Woithiz Wāthā spearmen into your Anvil and Worgōzez into your armour peircing, melee excelling Hammer you can start routing large armies on contact, and if they don't break you can cut them down in devestating close combat. The absolutely vital point here is to make sure you don't send your General up against anything armour peircing or trully elite infantry killers, like Gaesatae.

[A Very Super Market]

Nevah! Generals fight generals, whatever the consequences! Death in battle is glorious...

[Macilrille]

Note that the H & A the OP is talking about is the classic one of the Phalanx factions where your line inf pins the enemy and your elite cav circles wide to hit them in the back. The above tactic is a "closer-in" H & A tactic, not the classic one for the Philhellenes.

Just wanted to emphasise that to avoid misunderstandings.

[Macilrille]

Further, and necro-ing the thread. In my last Sweboz Campaign I tried to keep a reserve of scary units just out of range of missiles behind my line to launch at a crucial moment. Further, if there is anything at all to hide in, scary units in ambush is a very- very good idea. The Tactic Arminus used against Varus still works very well.

[Drunk Clown]

I would like to know about the getai FM. Do they have to fight in the frontline too? (probably not as they are cav.)

[Ibrahim]

Nevah! Generals fight generals, whatever the consequences! Death in battle is glorious...

that's what the losers of this battle thought as well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_1g...eature=related

'nuff said.

[Cute Wolf]

I would like to know about the getai FM. Do they have to fight in the frontline too? (probably not as they are cav.)

? Getai FM? They are Phylakes Daoi and they are on the Horsie's back......

[Duguntz]

sensless... the only place for a FM is in the middle of the front line at the very first rank brigning havoc and hell to the ennemy. Otherwise he'll be unelected at the tengoz, and worst... when he'll die, Krom will laugh at him and throw him out of the Valhalla...

[artavazd]

sensless... the only place for a FM is in the middle of the front line at the very first rank brigning havoc and hell to the ennemy. Otherwise he'll be unelected at the tengoz, and worst... when he'll die, Krom will laugh at him and throw him out of the Valhalla...

isnt Krom Celtic?

[Duguntz]

isnt Krom Celtic?

Cimmerian (That was a reference to Conan the Barbarian, I tought I wouldn't have to point it out!)

[Silence Hunter]

I think the original poster wanted to know how to play a foot general faction with General Camera ON. The general camera is a crucial point here, as with it enabled you only see what the general unit can see. So with reduced mobility of foot generals, compared to cavalry ones, these factions make it extremely difficult to play.

Here is what I would suggest:

1. Sweboz: use the general the way many people here already mentioned - centre of the battleline and a ferocious charge at the enemy lines. That's how germanic general would have fought back in the days. And he would have no clue on what's going on the flanks (unless there was some kind of messenger system...). So in order to be effective with such playstyle try to use ambushes as much as possible, also use mainly infantry based armies.

2. KH: now this is really hard. Historically the general would be on the right flank, leading the attack and being the might of the force in hoplite warfare (as right wing was expected to crush their opponent faster than enemy's right wing did the same to yours). In game perspective this could be achievable if you had a mostly static left wing up to the centre of the line (as you can't see what's going on there) and an elite punching power on the right. That is use left wing to hold their ground, while using the right wing where the general is to crush the opposing right wing and roll down the rest of the army. The only problem here is that enemy generals (both your starting enemies Epeiros and Macedon has those killer Hetairoi) will be on their right wings and possibly a great threat to your left wing. However this is the challenge the historical KH general would face - kill your opposing wing faster than the enemy can crush yours.

3. Saba: I guess the general should be kept as a reserve elite infantry. They are quite mobile so you can run up and down your battle line. When you see an opening or your own line is crumbling send the general in. He should act as a deciding factor in battle and most likely his heroic fight will break the enemy morale and from that breaking point you can crush the rest of the enemy army with local superiority.

This is just how I would play these factions with GC ON. Hope you find them useful

[Moros]

3. Saba: I guess the general should be kept as a reserve elite infantry. They are quite mobile so you can run up and down your battle line. When you see an opening or your own line is crumbling send the general in. He should act as a deciding factor in battle and most likely his heroic fight will break the enemy morale and from that breaking point you can crush the rest of the enemy army with local superiority.

Now you're already making me think of tactics for the Sabaeans in EBII, which will have a rather different and much more varied army.

[Unintended BM]

I've never gotten very far in my Saba games, but I usually just shove my general into my main line and just have them hold. Then I bring my archers around to shoot all of the enemies in the back. I guess that wouldn't work for general cam though. Maybe it would. I don't know, I've never used it before.