Warned for "Jesus"

[lobf]

Hey. I was warned for this post today:

Original Post:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=2360009

Wow you really are hopeless, I will not even try to explain to you what common values are...

~Fluvius

Is this representative of "common values?"

Jesus you guys are touchy.

I was accused of using profane language by a moderator who doesn't speak English as a first language, and does not live in an English-speaking country. He doesn't understand that it is common to use Jesus as an expression of shock, and he warned be because he is a Christian and doesn't agree with that type of language.

The word Jesus is not inherently profane, and it is not disallowed by the language rules spelled out in the FAQ. I had no way of reasonably knowing that this would be considered offensive (considering this is a phrase used commonly on national television and casual conversation) because it is not offensive to those who are not Christians.

Anyways, this is bothering me, and Ludens won't change it. So, I'm complaining here.

[Rhyfelwyr]

If you wanted to talk it over with the mods in a respectful way, you probably shouldn't have changed your custom user title to "Jesus" in the meantime...

[Beskar]

You are using blasmphemy, in technical terms.

If you replied:
"Common values? Jesus is my basis for them"

Then you would have used the word Jesus legitimately.

[lobf]

If you wanted to talk it over with the mods in a respectful way, you probably shouldn't have changed your custom user title to "Jesus" in the meantime...

I know lots of people named "Jesus." It is LA after all.

You are using blasmphemy, in technical terms.

If you replied:
"Common values? Jesus is my basis for them"

Then you would have used the word Jesus legitimately.

Blasphemy if you happen to follow a particular religious viewpoint. If, however, you don't, Jesus is a synonym for "wow." Like in most of the US.

I used the phrase when I was an altar boy.

[Ludens]

Maybe I did overreact. That's why I wrote you could ask TosaInu. It's under discussion now, but... I think you too are overreacting by complaining in the Watchtower when the moderators have had less than an hour to look into it. And where did I write I am a Christian?

[lobf]

Maybe I did overreact. That's why I wrote you could ask TosaInu. It's under discussion now, but... I think you too are overreacting by complaining in the Watchtower when the moderators have had less than an hour to look into it. And where did I write I am a Christian?

I'm just following every course of action available to me to correct this. I want everyone to know about this also, because I'm pretty sure the general public would take my side.

And you didn't -say- you were a Christian, but nobody else would get upset at a "profane" use of his name (as you said in your PM) Am I wrong?

[Monk]

We do things a bit differently here. You don't need a public appeal or get the people on your side to get a warning overturned as all warnings (or infractions) can be appealed in private with the moderator who infracted you or the big red TosaInu. We're an understanding bunch. And we don't bite.*

We mods acknowledge that we're human and that sometimes we make mistakes. Most of us however prefer the PM route as a matter of courtesy.



*Well, except Martok. He bites. But he can't help it being a Klingon and all.

[lobf]

We do things a bit differently here. You don't need a public appeal or get the people on your side to get a warning overturned as all warnings (or infractions) can be appealed in private with the moderator who infracted you or the big red TosaInu. We're an understanding bunch. And we don't bite.*

We mods acknowledge that we're human and that sometimes we make mistakes. Most of us however prefer the PM route as a matter of courtesy.



*Well, except Martok. He bites. But he can't help it being a Klingon and all.

I didn't know how this process was going to go down, so I figured just get it all out of the way at once.

[pevergreen]

I want everyone to know about this also, because I'm pretty sure the general public would take my side.

Bollocks.




Now that I've channelled that:

This is not TWC, or anything else like that. The public opinion does not reign supreme.

I inherently take the other side, based on the fact you went public with this within an hour?

You are using the name of Christ in vain, this can be offensive to people, therefore not welcome.

It matters not if Ludens finds it offensive. We treat the org as safe for everyone of the ages 8+. Ideally 13, but people as young as 8. Would you want to be 'swearing' in front of an eight year old kid?

Around here the f-bomb is used more than please or thank you, but that doesnt make it ok to post it here.

[lobf]

Bollocks.




Now that I've channelled that:

This is not TWC, or anything else like that. The public opinion does not reign supreme.

I inherently take the other side, based on the fact you went public with this within an hour?

You are using the name of Christ in vain, this can be offensive to people, therefore not welcome.

It matters not if Ludens finds it offensive. We treat the org as safe for everyone of the ages 8+. Ideally 13, but people as young as 8. Would you want to be 'swearing' in front of an eight year old kid?

Around here the f-bomb is used more than please or thank you, but that doesnt make it ok to post it here.

I wasn't "swearing." I would be perfectly comfortable saying "Jesus" around an 8 year old. .

[Louis VI the Fat]

I was accused of using profane language by a moderator who doesn't speak English as a first language, and does not live in an English-speaking country. He doesn't understand that it is common to use Jesus as an expression of shock, and he warned be because he is a Christian and doesn't agree with that type of language.

I am quite sure any non-native speaker who manages to register and log onto this forum understands the word 'Jesus'.

As to its appropriate use - this is a multi-national forum. As such, having non-Anglo moderators too actually improves the chance of staff awareness of sensitive uses of the word.


By Toutatis! A warning point that is still under consideration for a second opinion turns into a thread that only narrowly avoids outright smears against Christians, non-Americans, non-native English speakers, and anything non-Boss Angeles.

[Vuk]

I agree with the mod on this one. Not because I am Christian, but for the same reason I would say it if you used Muhammed as a swear word. You know it can offend people, so you should not do it when you can get your meaning across just as well using a different word.

[Beskar]

I agree with the mod on this one. Not because I am Christian, but for the same reason I would say it if you used Muhammed as a swear word. You know it can offend people, so you should not do it when you can get your meaning across just as well using a different word.

Oh my, with pevergreens example for covering up the f-word, it is the whole Danish cartoon situation again.

edit: Stolen from Gameroom, but live your life sin-free.
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...77&postcount=2

[edyzmedieval]

I am quite sure any non-native speaker who manages to register and log onto this forum understands the word 'Jesus'.

Ah that was just too funny.

By Toutatis! A warning point that is still under consideration for a second opinion turns into a thread that only narrowly avoids outright smears against Christians, non-Americans, non-native English speakers, and anything non-Boss Angeles.

My dear Louis, did you by any chance meet my ex girlfriend I've been telling you about? You seem happy.

[pevergreen]

I think STFS had just come online on webcam.

[Louis VI the Fat]

My dear Louis, did you by any chance meet my ex girlfriend I've been telling you about? You seem happy.

My dearest, if I had stumbled into your eightteen year old, neurosurgeon, kind, hot, French virgin, I wouldn't be posting here.

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, man! I can't believe you really dumped her.


I'd tell you to give her my phone number, if only in real life I wouldn't have a hunchback, elephantitis, and many other deformities.

[lobf]

By the way...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/searc...earchid=241430

Edit: Not saying 2 wrongs make a right, just pointing out the discrepancy in enforcement.

[Prince Cobra]

OK, calm down... Good... breath... The man (Ludens) is competent enough in English in order to understand you. The fact he is not a native speaker does not make him inferior to you in any way. He also told you he could have slightly overreacted and told you contact Tosa. From my personal observation, he is one of the most friendly people around, so you should not suspect him of bad feelings towards you. The matter is solved. Anything else is, I believe, attracting attention unnecessarily.

Now, you can contribute to a more useful topic than this one. You can do it!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Btw, have in mind religious issue is a touchy topic... be careful.

[lobf]

I am quite sure any non-native speaker who manages to register and log onto this forum understands the word 'Jesus'.

As to its appropriate use - this is a multi-national forum. As such, having non-Anglo moderators too actually improves the chance of discouraging possible sensitive uses.


By Toutatis! A warning point that is still under consideration for a second opinion turns into a thread that only narrowly avoids outright smears against Christians, non-Americans, non-native English speakers, and anything non-Boss Angeles.

No s**t they understand "Jesus." That's the problem. The issue is not understanding the context in which it was used. It's extremely common to preface a sentence with "Jesus" "Christ" or "Jesus Christ" when expressing exasperation and/or disbelief. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it profanity.

In fact, the only way it could be profanity is if you happen to follow a particular set of personal beliefs, and I really can't be found responsible for that.

And how am I even close to "smearing" Christians, non-Americans, or non-native English speakers? Ignorance is a smear now?

[pevergreen]

No Incompatible language they understand "Jesus." That's the problem. The issue is not understanding the context in which it was used. It's extremely common to preface a sentence with "Jesus" "Christ" or "Jesus Christ" when expressing exasperation and/or disbelief. Just because you don't understand it doesn't make it profanity.

In fact, the only way it could be profanity is if you happen to follow a particular set of personal beliefs, and I really can't be found responsible for that.

And how am I even close to "smearing" Christians, non-Americans, or non-native English speakers? Ignorance is a smear now?

It may be common, but its not socially acceptable everywhere in the world.

'Damn' may be absolutely nothing here, but a certain beserker informed a commander of hankerchiefs that it is worse than the f-bomb where he lives.

This is not a democracy.

Each area is moderated by the people who preside in that area, so there will always be slight differences. The EB sub-forum is hardly a place to cite, that place...well, lets just say everything there is lax. When the denizens come out, I cringe.

Oh hi, ACIN

[lobf]

It may be common, but its not socially acceptable everywhere in the world.

'Damn' may be absolutely nothing here, but a certain beserker informed a commander of hankerchiefs that it is worse than the f-bomb where he lives.

This is not a democracy.

Each area is moderated by the people who preside in that area, so there will always be slight differences. The EB sub-forum is hardly a place to cite, that place...well, lets just say everything there is lax. When the denizens come out, I cringe.

Oh hi, ACIN

Oops, I honestly didn't realize I had said "sh*t."

Are you saying I'm an ACIN alt account?

[pevergreen]

No, I just said hello to ACIN. If you were ACIN you'd be insulting me or my mother or something, I dunno, I don't read half of what he says.


I'd edit out both your post with the word and this one, the common practice is to either asterix out the entire word eg: Oh ****. or the ever faithful (:daisy:) simply blocking out one letter or even s*** is not enough and may attract WPs.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I honestly never realized that Ludens wasn't a native speaker of English. His written English is better than mine at any rate.

[pevergreen]

I honestly never realized that Ludens wasn't a native speaker of English. His written English is better than mine at any rate.

Likewise. I also believe he would speak it better than myself.

[Andres]

Anyways, this is bothering me, and Ludens won't change it. So, I'm complaining here.

It surprises me that you are not complaining about your aggressive posting style and bad language in posts #36, #38 and #77 of that thread and the fact that post #79, which contained the word "Jesus", was also a clear attempt at getting that thread even more heated than it already was and which eventually caused the thread to get closed...

Maybe Ludens was in a hurry (as he indicated when he closed the thread, btw) and didn't have enough time to write an elaborate explanation about why exactly your behaviour in that thread was way out of line? Not that such an explanation would be needed, as it seems pretty obvious.

All in all, I think that just a pm warning was more than fair in this case, considering your behaviour in that thread.

[lobf]

It surprises me that you are not complaining about your aggressive posting style and bad language in posts #36, #38 and #77 of that thread and the fact that post #79, which contained the word "Jesus", was also a clear attempt at getting that thread even more heated than it already was and which eventually caused the thread to get closed...

Maybe Ludens was in a hurry (as he indicated when he closed the thread, btw) and didn't have enough time to write an elaborate explanation about why exactly your behaviour in that thread was way out of line? Not that such an explanation would be needed, as it seems pretty obvious.

All in all, I think that just a pm warning was more than fair in this case, considering your behaviour in that thread.

Except in the PM he specifically cited my use of "Jesus" as the reason for the warning and called it "profane," while making not a single remark about any other posts?

Not to mention I was attacked in that thread after committing the grave offense of asking for sources. Oh no!

[TinCow]

lobf: I believe this discussion is not useful to your case. You had a valid question about your warning, but unfortunately you did not handle it properly. As a result, the issue regarding your warning is now difficult to disentangle from your subsequent behavior. When you raised the issue via PM, the Moderators immediately began discussing whether the warning was proper under the circumstances. However, after that point you started this thread and have since dropped several very significant curse words and have otherwise demonstrated less than sterling behavior. This influences your case a great deal, as it makes your look like a troll and that cannot help but distort our perception of the original incident.

I would suggest that you simply let the matter lie, as from my standpoint it looks like your current course is only likely to get you into more trouble. I will once again emphasize that a warning PM is just that: a warning. No action is taken on it and it is simply a notice sent from a Moderator to a member. Be careful you don't talk your way into an actual infraction, when all you've gotten so far is a finger wag. In the future, please be aware that we really do review warnings and infractions in a proper and reasonable manner when an appeal is lodged. Doing so in a polite and respectful manner is far more likely to result in a positive outcome than reacting in the manner that you have demonstrated in this thread.

[Ludens]

And you didn't -say- you were a Christian, but nobody else would get upset at a "profane" use of his name (as you said in your PM) Am I wrong?

Yes. In fact, my very first post on the .Org was a defence of atheism. I am not religious, but I think it important to be respectful of the religious feelings of others, if only for the sake of politeness.

You may have noticed that Ludens already posted in this thread, admitted that he himself is not sure and already asked Tosa's opinion on the matter.

For the record: it was lobf who contacted TosaInu, not me.

Oh for crying out loud, it was just a PM?

Yes.

I honestly never realized that Ludens wasn't a native speaker of English. His written English is better than mine at any rate.

Likewise. I also believe he would speak it better than myself.

And yes, others noted, I never realised Ludens was not a native speaker. I mean, his style of writing seemed to indicate inborn fluency. Non-native speakers usually write better, but it is noticeable in the syntax as well as other factors which country they come from.