This is spilling over from another thread, in which Tribesman referenced a remark I once made on how according to the scripture, Christians will be hated by the world. To stop derailing that thread, my next post would have been:
Unlike todays fundamentalists, I am not waiting for the rapture, and I hold a historicist position on the tribulation, as did Luther, Calvin and all the Reformers before US Evangelicals decided to drop their ideas. So, I believe that the tribulation is a gradual event that has been going on for nearly the past 2,000 years. Also, they were partial-preterists, so they regarded the more specific bits of the prophecy as referring to the events which took place in 70AD (like Mark 13:17 as you mentioned above) - not the end of the tribulation, but a sort of shadow of what was to come.
So, Mark 13:13 can be applied to Christians today, and all parts are of some symbolic significance of the tribulation. Why do you insist on making such a fundamentalist(/literalist?) reading of it?
I can't find this part with the temple at the end of John 15. Also, please address the verse I quoted. Jesus said "I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you", you tell me I'm talking rubbish when I say the world will hate Christians...
I may also use this thread for other controversial topics which I can think of...
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