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To me this seems definetly like a Celtic simbol....
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
So that is why I say: SYRACUSE
edit: nevermind..
Originally Posted by Olimpian:
So that is why I say: SYRACUSE
edit: nevermind..
Hm... I certainly hope thats the case. I think Syracuse is a faction a lot of people are hoping for.Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
So that is why I say: SYRACUSE
edit: nevermind..
It would be too easy to just look at RS2 shields and so guess all occultus sigs right.
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq:
It would be too easy to just look at RS2 shields and so guess all occultus sigs right.
Just because that was succeeded once, I don't see why it must do again. Take a look, you won't be able to find all the answers there. It would be too easy to just look at RS2 shields and so guess all occultus sigs right.
Foot
It looks Celtic to me too.
And guys, have you noticed this? https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...4&postcount=60
So I would say some celtiberian tribe like Arevaci.
And guys, have you noticed this? https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...4&postcount=60
So I would say some celtiberian tribe like Arevaci.
Originally Posted by hekk:
Hm... I certainly hope thats the case. I think Syracuse is a faction a lot of people are hoping for.
its not: the tail area and that nose kinda ruin the bull theory. at least for now.Hm... I certainly hope thats the case. I think Syracuse is a faction a lot of people are hoping for.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
That is why I say: CHATTI
That could be any Germanic faction. Then again any Germanic faction would be good, Chatti would be great, though perhaps the team goes for a more distant Germanic faction then again Germania was similar to Greece in earlier time, many loose states warring against eachother so having a couple of powerfull factions there would be somewhat Historical. 
Still hoping on an Batavian unit.
Still hoping on an Batavian unit.
imo a bit far fetched as it solely relies on the font(which is a vaild clue tho) and the world tree was not only holy to the Chatti ... but you know that.
that definately is the least conclusive sig of them all, I can't even see consistency in any way, with the hint towards the germanics or factions with the "barbarian" culture slot, those stripes could be seen as Trees on the other Sigs I could atleast differnenciate between Logo and background but not with this one.
Chatti would be cool indeed especially as it would support my positon in an other mod :DDD
that definately is the least conclusive sig of them all, I can't even see consistency in any way, with the hint towards the germanics or factions with the "barbarian" culture slot, those stripes could be seen as Trees on the other Sigs I could atleast differnenciate between Logo and background but not with this one.
Chatti would be cool indeed especially as it would support my positon in an other mod :DDD
I'd say that the use of coin imagery as EB faction symbols has provided numismatics with the greatest popularity boost since... ever!
If it really is a lion in Moros' signature it could also be Massalia. Just look at this coin:
maybe my idea of a massilian syracuse union to defend the greek places in the western mediterranean is not that far fetched 
Originally Posted by moonburn:
maybe my idea of a massilian syracuse union to defend the greek places in the western mediterranean is not that far fetched
yes it ismaybe my idea of a massilian syracuse union to defend the greek places in the western mediterranean is not that far fetched
Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus:
If it really is a lion in Moros' signature it could also be Massalia. Just look at this coin:
That would be great as well! If it really is a lion in Moros' signature it could also be Massalia. Just look at this coin:
I doubt its Massalia, the DEVs have dismissed it before I believe. Regardless they were just one small colony there, not really an expansive state.
I think it is probably Celtic, the font would fit such and also maybe that creature is a boar? (which I believe were used as symbols by the Celts)
I think it is probably Celtic, the font would fit such and also maybe that creature is a boar? (which I believe were used as symbols by the Celts)
Originally Posted by hekk:
I doubt its Massalia, the DEVs have dismissed it before I believe. Regardless they were just one small colony there, not really an expansive state.
I think it is probably Celtic, the font would fit such and also maybe that creature is a boar? (which I believe were used as symbols by the Celts)
As in EB1 I think Aedui will have the boar as symbol again, but who knows? Maybe not?I doubt its Massalia, the DEVs have dismissed it before I believe. Regardless they were just one small colony there, not really an expansive state.
I think it is probably Celtic, the font would fit such and also maybe that creature is a boar? (which I believe were used as symbols by the Celts)
Originally Posted by hekk:
I doubt its Massalia, the DEVs have dismissed it before I believe. Regardless they were just one small colony there, not really an expansive state.
You are right, but you can't say that the 'Koinon Hellenon' was that expansive either. And since Massalia was strongly allied with Emporion, you could have two cities.I doubt its Massalia, the DEVs have dismissed it before I believe. Regardless they were just one small colony there, not really an expansive state.
Originally Posted by Horatius Flaccus:
You are right, but you can't say that the 'Koinon Hellenon' was that expansive either. And since Massalia was strongly allied with Emporion, you could have two cities.
Was it?You are right, but you can't say that the 'Koinon Hellenon' was that expansive either. And since Massalia was strongly allied with Emporion, you could have two cities.
I thought I read something about troops send by Massalia to aid Emporion, but I can't recall where I read it...
From Massalia, it's very probable, it was one of the main ports of the Romans to reach Iberia. But troops from Massalia itself (and not in the context of supplying Rome with client troops) let me know if you find something.
Originally Posted by hekk:
I doubt its Massalia, the DEVs have dismissed it before I believe. Regardless they were just one small colony there, not really an expansive state.
I think it is probably Celtic, the font would fit such and also maybe that creature is a boar? (which I believe were used as symbols by the Celts)
so insignificant that they forced the punii to open up the herakles colums so greeks could trade in the atlantic and many many many times forced/imposed the greek smaller setlements rights over the punii (and by punii i don´t mean just kart hadast but all the other phoenician groups in the med ) I doubt its Massalia, the DEVs have dismissed it before I believe. Regardless they were just one small colony there, not really an expansive state.
I think it is probably Celtic, the font would fit such and also maybe that creature is a boar? (which I believe were used as symbols by the Celts)
syracuse history is known as they destroyed many punic armies in the wars for sicily but massilia was leading the greeks in the war against the punii in the iberian peninsula and defending the greek rights in corsica (and even maybe sardinia and/or the baleares) , the massilian navy was feared even in ceaser´s time until julius himself had to take out the city to protect it´s back or that navy could be used to ship the pompeyan legions back to italy or into the balkans
massilia was an independent city heavily based on comerce and with one of the strongest navies in the mediterraneum for over 500 years, their adventurers are said to have went to iceland and scandinavia on their voyages
Originally Posted by moonburn:
so insignificant that they forced the punii to open up the herakles colums so greeks could trade in the atlantic and many many many times forced/imposed the greek smaller setlements rights over the punii (and by punii i don´t mean just kart hadast but all the other phoenician groups in the med )
syracuse history is known as they destroyed many punic armies in the wars for sicily but massilia was leading the greeks in the war against the punii in the iberian peninsula and defending the greek rights in corsica (and even maybe sardinia and/or the baleares) , the massilian navy was feared even in ceaser´s time until julius himself had to take out the city to protect it´s back or that navy could be used to ship the pompeyan legions back to italy or into the balkans
massilia was an independent city heavily based on comerce and with one of the strongest navies in the mediterraneum for over 500 years, their adventurers are said to have went to iceland and scandinavia on their voyages
And where did you read this?so insignificant that they forced the punii to open up the herakles colums so greeks could trade in the atlantic and many many many times forced/imposed the greek smaller setlements rights over the punii (and by punii i don´t mean just kart hadast but all the other phoenician groups in the med )
syracuse history is known as they destroyed many punic armies in the wars for sicily but massilia was leading the greeks in the war against the punii in the iberian peninsula and defending the greek rights in corsica (and even maybe sardinia and/or the baleares) , the massilian navy was feared even in ceaser´s time until julius himself had to take out the city to protect it´s back or that navy could be used to ship the pompeyan legions back to italy or into the balkans
massilia was an independent city heavily based on comerce and with one of the strongest navies in the mediterraneum for over 500 years, their adventurers are said to have went to iceland and scandinavia on their voyages
Massilia was among the first factions we excluded.
I'm gonna have to ask for sources on all of this.
The Massiliots did not force the punics to open up anything, quite the contrary. The Punics, if anything were responsible for the progressive loss of importance on the part of the Greeks in the South and Southeast of Iberia, not to mention they were also responsible for the Greek loss of Corsica (back in 540 BC!). The Pillars were closed to any significant penetration for as long as it was closed...only with the Romans was the Punic supremacy in that part of the world, ever to be seriously challenged.
As for Massilia, during the civil war, the reason it was attacked was during Caesar's march on Hispania, they refused to open it's gates, not because they were some perceived threat to the Populares. It was however, a great port, and a useful one to keep for operations in Hispania. Their fleet at the time was a whopping 17 warships, of which only 11 were covered...and so strong it was, that they were unable to break the blockade made by just 12 ships hastily constructed on the spot with green wood and manned by inexperienced troops in naval actions, and lost more than half their number in the process (3 sunk, 6 captured).
Also, I don't get the connection between Syracuse, Massilia and Emporion that some people seem to love making. Let's come up with facts.
The Massiliots did not force the punics to open up anything, quite the contrary. The Punics, if anything were responsible for the progressive loss of importance on the part of the Greeks in the South and Southeast of Iberia, not to mention they were also responsible for the Greek loss of Corsica (back in 540 BC!). The Pillars were closed to any significant penetration for as long as it was closed...only with the Romans was the Punic supremacy in that part of the world, ever to be seriously challenged.
As for Massilia, during the civil war, the reason it was attacked was during Caesar's march on Hispania, they refused to open it's gates, not because they were some perceived threat to the Populares. It was however, a great port, and a useful one to keep for operations in Hispania. Their fleet at the time was a whopping 17 warships, of which only 11 were covered...and so strong it was, that they were unable to break the blockade made by just 12 ships hastily constructed on the spot with green wood and manned by inexperienced troops in naval actions, and lost more than half their number in the process (3 sunk, 6 captured).
Also, I don't get the connection between Syracuse, Massilia and Emporion that some people seem to love making. Let's come up with facts.
He seems to be basing it on the Pytheas or Greeks in pre-Roman Gaul wiki pages which have such claims in them citing this book as a source. Not entirely convinced about it though and even if it was correct this all refers to events hundreds of years before the EB start date and isn't proof of Massalia's power in the 3rd centuty BC.
actually it was on these forums when people where debating one of the 3 hanno the greats there was someone who posted links to similar travels but this time by the massilians ans going north instead of going south, for them to do this they had to travel the strait and since the punii had already taken over the straight with the building of mastia it was agreed on those links that the massilians had "persuaded" the massilians to open up the straight
the roman conquest i knew it was ceaser but the small details i was unaware but it made no sence to conquer the city unleass he was afraid they could be a problem and evacuate the pompeian legions from spain
as for the conection the only one everyone makes is that they where all greek and therefore had some type of "solidarity" for each other, i believed i read on one of the aar´s that emporion and massilia had some type of conection and thus this conection could be extended into arse somehow :X
anyway i would love to play a campaign where the western greek cities where united while all the forts in the region are in the hands of the native tribes giving it a new look and a new gameplay
anyway the person i replyed to was calling massylia a small colony wich in fact i tend to not believe it was a very important port in that region and therefore if we draw a compariston with athens wich also had a great port in it. it had all it needed to be a major polis since it was an hub for comerce beteween keltoi and the "civilized" world
the roman conquest i knew it was ceaser but the small details i was unaware but it made no sence to conquer the city unleass he was afraid they could be a problem and evacuate the pompeian legions from spain
as for the conection the only one everyone makes is that they where all greek and therefore had some type of "solidarity" for each other, i believed i read on one of the aar´s that emporion and massilia had some type of conection and thus this conection could be extended into arse somehow :X
anyway i would love to play a campaign where the western greek cities where united while all the forts in the region are in the hands of the native tribes giving it a new look and a new gameplay
anyway the person i replyed to was calling massylia a small colony wich in fact i tend to not believe it was a very important port in that region and therefore if we draw a compariston with athens wich also had a great port in it. it had all it needed to be a major polis since it was an hub for comerce beteween keltoi and the "civilized" world
Originally Posted by moonburn:
actually it was on these forums when people where debating one of the 3 hanno the greats there was someone who posted links to similar travels but this time by the massilians ans going north instead of going south, for them to do this they had to travel the strait and since the punii had already taken over the straight with the building of mastia it was agreed on those links that the massilians had "persuaded" the massilians to open up the straight
the roman conquest i knew it was ceaser but the small details i was unaware but it made no sence to conquer the city unleass he was afraid they could be a problem and evacuate the pompeian legions from spain
as for the conection the only one everyone makes is that they where all greek and therefore had some type of "solidarity" for each other, i believed i read on one of the aar´s that emporion and massilia had some type of conection and thus this conection could be extended into arse somehow :X
anyway i would love to play a campaign where the western greek cities where united while all the forts in the region are in the hands of the native tribes giving it a new look and a new gameplay
anyway the person i replyed to was calling massylia a small colony wich in fact i tend to not believe it was a very important port in that region and therefore if we draw a compariston with athens wich also had a great port in it. it had all it needed to be a major polis since it was an hub for comerce beteween keltoi and the "civilized" world
It was ONE Massilian, Pytheas. The Carthaginians could very well have allowed one Greek non-merchant ship to pass through, or they might have allowed some. People speak of the western Mediterranean Greeks as being united...they weren't.actually it was on these forums when people where debating one of the 3 hanno the greats there was someone who posted links to similar travels but this time by the massilians ans going north instead of going south, for them to do this they had to travel the strait and since the punii had already taken over the straight with the building of mastia it was agreed on those links that the massilians had "persuaded" the massilians to open up the straight
the roman conquest i knew it was ceaser but the small details i was unaware but it made no sence to conquer the city unleass he was afraid they could be a problem and evacuate the pompeian legions from spain
as for the conection the only one everyone makes is that they where all greek and therefore had some type of "solidarity" for each other, i believed i read on one of the aar´s that emporion and massilia had some type of conection and thus this conection could be extended into arse somehow :X
anyway i would love to play a campaign where the western greek cities where united while all the forts in the region are in the hands of the native tribes giving it a new look and a new gameplay
anyway the person i replyed to was calling massylia a small colony wich in fact i tend to not believe it was a very important port in that region and therefore if we draw a compariston with athens wich also had a great port in it. it had all it needed to be a major polis since it was an hub for comerce beteween keltoi and the "civilized" world
Massilia was an important port, that was reason enough for Caesar to seize it. Perfect place to ship further troops and supplies to Iberia from. And also to receive Pompeian Legions.
Back to western Greek cities. Emporion and a few other colonies in Iberia were founded by Massilia, but they weren't united. Emporion for example didn't send any aid when Massilians were forced out of Corsica. Plus the Greeks in Iberia seems to have been hardly at war with anyone as they seem to have allied with nearby tribes. Arse for example was an Iberian oppida which incorporated a nearby Greek port.
We can't create a Western Greek Alliance faction because some people have a hard-on for it.
Create a minimod for that if people wish.
And Massylia in this case is one of two Numidian kingdoms.
In this web: http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/...WestGreek.html
I found this quote: The main reason for the Greek failure in the west was their refusal to form leagues or commonwealths between them and the extensive reliance on temporarily employed mercenaries.
That pretty much sums up the situation for me, more so being no evidence of any commonwealth between western greek states, unlike their eastern cousins. So from a game perspective, it makes sense to have them as rebel cities who don´ help each other.
What could be done is that while playing as a greek faction (maybe Syracuse if it is playable) you could get a mission, a request of help from a greek city, and if you help them they could join you forming a sort of commonwealth. But having something like that from the start is pretty inaccurate.
I found this quote: The main reason for the Greek failure in the west was their refusal to form leagues or commonwealths between them and the extensive reliance on temporarily employed mercenaries.
That pretty much sums up the situation for me, more so being no evidence of any commonwealth between western greek states, unlike their eastern cousins. So from a game perspective, it makes sense to have them as rebel cities who don´ help each other.
What could be done is that while playing as a greek faction (maybe Syracuse if it is playable) you could get a mission, a request of help from a greek city, and if you help them they could join you forming a sort of commonwealth. But having something like that from the start is pretty inaccurate.
I think as long as we get certain unique units in unique settlements like Massilia and Emporion (like in EBI), then that should do really. Hopefully there will be some new factions nearby the Western Greek settlements.
i´m aware of the situation krusader but one as the right to dream 
as for "allowed" if the charties where so afraid of greek competition that they had to "hide" some sea routes like in that same thread then why would they allow a greek to get to know possible new trade routes unleass that greek had a roosevelt diplomatic aproach to bussiness (the 1st roosevelt president is said to have said "when negotiating make sure you have a big stick behinde your back" when adressing the creation of the panama canal ) thus maybe massilia wasn´t so "weak" at least during that time.
anway bucefalo idea seems an excellent midleground and probably allow the kh to expand properly instead of having to fight lusos when enporium rebels.
as for "allowed" if the charties where so afraid of greek competition that they had to "hide" some sea routes like in that same thread then why would they allow a greek to get to know possible new trade routes unleass that greek had a roosevelt diplomatic aproach to bussiness (the 1st roosevelt president is said to have said "when negotiating make sure you have a big stick behinde your back" when adressing the creation of the panama canal ) thus maybe massilia wasn´t so "weak" at least during that time.
anway bucefalo idea seems an excellent midleground and probably allow the kh to expand properly instead of having to fight lusos when enporium rebels.
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