An Occultus Faction possibly worked out?

[Krusader]

actually it was on these forums when people where debating one of the 3 hanno the greats there was someone who posted links to similar travels but this time by the massilians ans going north instead of going south, for them to do this they had to travel the strait and since the punii had already taken over the straight with the building of mastia it was agreed on those links that the massilians had "persuaded" the massilians to open up the straight

the roman conquest i knew it was ceaser but the small details i was unaware but it made no sence to conquer the city unleass he was afraid they could be a problem and evacuate the pompeian legions from spain

as for the conection the only one everyone makes is that they where all greek and therefore had some type of "solidarity" for each other, i believed i read on one of the aar´s that emporion and massilia had some type of conection and thus this conection could be extended into arse somehow :X

anyway i would love to play a campaign where the western greek cities where united while all the forts in the region are in the hands of the native tribes giving it a new look and a new gameplay

anyway the person i replyed to was calling massylia a small colony wich in fact i tend to not believe it was a very important port in that region and therefore if we draw a compariston with athens wich also had a great port in it. it had all it needed to be a major polis since it was an hub for comerce beteween keltoi and the "civilized" world

It was ONE Massilian, Pytheas. The Carthaginians could very well have allowed one Greek non-merchant ship to pass through, or they might have allowed some. People speak of the western Mediterranean Greeks as being united...they weren't.

Massilia was an important port, that was reason enough for Caesar to seize it. Perfect place to ship further troops and supplies to Iberia from. And also to receive Pompeian Legions.

Back to western Greek cities. Emporion and a few other colonies in Iberia were founded by Massilia, but they weren't united. Emporion for example didn't send any aid when Massilians were forced out of Corsica. Plus the Greeks in Iberia seems to have been hardly at war with anyone as they seem to have allied with nearby tribes. Arse for example was an Iberian oppida which incorporated a nearby Greek port.
We can't create a Western Greek Alliance faction because some people have a hard-on for it.
Create a minimod for that if people wish.

And Massylia in this case is one of two Numidian kingdoms.

[Bucefalo]

In this web: http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/...WestGreek.html

I found this quote: The main reason for the Greek failure in the west was their refusal to form leagues or commonwealths between them and the extensive reliance on temporarily employed mercenaries.


That pretty much sums up the situation for me, more so being no evidence of any commonwealth between western greek states, unlike their eastern cousins. So from a game perspective, it makes sense to have them as rebel cities who don´ help each other.

What could be done is that while playing as a greek faction (maybe Syracuse if it is playable) you could get a mission, a request of help from a greek city, and if you help them they could join you forming a sort of commonwealth. But having something like that from the start is pretty inaccurate.

[hekk]

I think as long as we get certain unique units in unique settlements like Massilia and Emporion (like in EBI), then that should do really. Hopefully there will be some new factions nearby the Western Greek settlements.

[moonburn]

i´m aware of the situation krusader but one as the right to dream

as for "allowed" if the charties where so afraid of greek competition that they had to "hide" some sea routes like in that same thread then why would they allow a greek to get to know possible new trade routes unleass that greek had a roosevelt diplomatic aproach to bussiness (the 1st roosevelt president is said to have said "when negotiating make sure you have a big stick behinde your back" when adressing the creation of the panama canal ) thus maybe massilia wasn´t so "weak" at least during that time.

anway bucefalo idea seems an excellent midleground and probably allow the kh to expand properly instead of having to fight lusos when enporium rebels.

[Iain.]

I reckon that this occultus sig here is Nabatea.

As you can see that there's a clearly defined hump on the back of the thing. This says Camel to me.

I've heard that the Nabateans were renowned for their camels.

In fact, their invention of an effective saddle for a camel meant they could effectively fight from the camels back. This allowed them to become the dominant tribe in their area. I saw a picture of a coin that clearly showed a camel wearing this new saddle.

From what I hear, they were pretty influential in their day.

I saw all this in a BBC documentary about Johann Ludwig Burckhardt's rediscovery of Petra called "The Rose-red City".

But yeah, it might be a long shot, but I think the Occultus sig could be Nabatea.

[Brennus]

Hi Iain! Welcome!

Thankyou for the short insight into the history of camel warfare but I doubt it could be Nabatea, the Nabateans just wern't expansive enough to qualify as a faction.

Hang on a minute though, when on earth did the Bosporan Greeks expand?

[Iain.]

Hi Iain! Welcome!

Thankyou for the short insight into the history of camel warfare but I doubt it could be Nabatea, the Nabateans just wern't expansive enough to qualify as a faction.

Hang on a minute though, when on earth did the Bosporan Greeks expand?

That's the thing, I'm pretty sure that the team has run out of expansionist factions to add to the game, so I'd think it would be necessary to add in other factions that historically weren't very expansionistic, though perhaps could have been if they had been differently inclined.

I can see Nabatea being kind of similar to Saba, but with more Hellenistic influences.