Dragon Age: Origins gameplay and discussion thread.

[Beskar]

Just to highlight my point:

Say you're fighting the climactic final battle of a game, but the said battle feels like a chore as the combat consists of repeating the same combinations until the boss is dead. If a fight that should be the most thrilling battle of the game is just boring, doesn't that break the immersion and the atmosphere? Isn't it bad storytelling?

Gameplay is the mechanics of the game and the mechanics are always very simplistic at the end of the day. Halo, CoD:MW2, et al, pretty much have identical gameplay. What separates them is the story. Fighting particular monsters or particular bosses comes under the story.

Since any gameplay can be reduced to "repeating the same combinations", not really a valid point. Playing football is kicking a ball, tennis is hitting it with a racket, all within a framework of rules, there isn't much in 'options'. So in Fifa, the whole passing the ball, the statistics, etc are part of the game play, the fact you are in Munich stadium and your striker is Wayne Rooney is on the story side of things.

The difference would be closer in Rockband where the 'story' part is pretty much the music, where your characters are located, may it be a pirate ship or bar and the gameplay is the pressing the keys in the right order, and getting bonuses for doing so.

[AggonyDuck]

Since any gameplay can be reduced to "repeating the same combinations", not really a valid point. Playing football is kicking a ball, tennis is hitting it with a racket, all within a framework of rules, there isn't much in 'options'. So in Fifa, the whole passing the ball, the statistics, etc are part of the game play, the fact you are in Munich stadium and your striker is Wayne Rooney is on the story side of things.

You obviously missed my point, so I'll rephrase it. My point was that if you use a broad definition of story in games, then how can you see gameplay as separate from story?

A better example is that you are facing the final boss, who has been hyped up during the game, but in the ingame battle, he actually dies a lot easier than some of his lackeys. Is it bad gameplay or bad storytelling? Or as another example, poor AI causing the enemy to react in an unbelievable manner. Is it bad gameplay or bad storytelling?

[Mailman653]

BioWare Announces Dragon Age II Signature Edition

[Crazed Rabbit]

Wow, even Gamespy ragged on DA2:

Sharkey says: For myself and many other RPG fans out there, one of the best aspects of the genre is the ability to create your own character. No matter how BioWare pitches Hawke, there's no getting around the fact a sizable portion of Origins players will be disappointed. BioWare itself has actually criticized the Final Fantasy franchise for not allowing fans to create their own characters, going so far as to say FF is not an RPG. And the clunky controls in Origins were a console problem. Add the two changes together, and the answer appears clear: BioWare is taking a title best played on the PC and transforming it for the console crowd.

Maybe they're not getting a lot of ad orders right now.

In regards to story -
I think of story as being equal to plot. I don't want to pay $50 for a game when all that's good is the plot. And I think creating to broad of a definition for 'story' just dilutes the meaning.

Even with books, there is much more than plot; like characters, writing, etc.

So when I can go to the library and check out a great book for free, I don't want to pay $50 for a game where only the story is good.

CR

[rajpoot]

Rogue specialization in DA2, article at IGN. (spoilers)

New trailer. Rise to Power.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The first companion had been revealed. It's none other than Isebela from DAO, the pirate captain from the Pearl.

[Mailman653]

DA Facebook game announced.

[Fragony]

Just bought it. By the time I'm done with it Vegas should be on budget. Let's see what all the fuzz is about

[Fragony]

Hmmmmm good game. Graphics didn't age very well but I am totally buying the gameworld, loads of personality. This is going to be great fun.

update meh Bioware fatigue slips in, you can really enjoy one Bioware game I guess I have a major feeling of deja-vu. It's good but it's also tired, it isn't the game's fault but I'm bored

[Fragony]

Screw that awesome game, loving it excellent writing, I adore Mordigan great voice-acting with that longdrawn 'you are so dumb' intonation she's so cute. Yes babe we will rescue kittens deal with it.

[Mailman653]

DA2 Developer video

[rajpoot]

I think that one thing which can be safely said is that the cleavage of the ladies in Bioware games will always increase with each passing year.....
Aside from that, Hawke does not sound very champion like....would've been better had he sounded like Sean Connery....
And they aren't really giving any real info are they...? They're just trying to convince players that the game is very much like Origins.
Still it looks nice....not the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, but nice, nonetheless.

[rajpoot]

Demo is going to be out in a few hours for PC and PS3 users. Already out for Xbox Gold users.
Xbox Silver users will have to wait a week.

[Secura]

Just cleared the demo as a Rogue, going to give Mage a go; so far, I've been very impressed.

[rajpoot]

Just cleared the demo as a Rogue, going to give Mage a go; so far, I've been very impressed.

Ahh the benefits of a good connection.....I started five minutes after I posted here....still downloading......very.....very.........very.......slowly.

Edit-
So how long is the demo exactly? Playtime-wise?

[Secura]

Well, there's alot of narrative to watch, but the demo itself... you'll probably get about an hour or so if you go through and try out each of the three classes; it appears to be more a show of the graphics and combat/dialogue changes than anything else.

I really liked it, though... can't wait for the Sig. Edition to arrive now. :>

[Monk]

Ahh the benefits of a good connection.....I started five minutes after I posted here....still downloading......very.....very.........very.......slowly.

Edit-
So how long is the demo exactly? Playtime-wise?

Bioware servers exploded thanks to huge demand. Took three times for me to get it downloaded and working, twice it corrupted.

Play-time the game offers you a small piece of the prologue as well as a portion of Isabella's companion quest. All told about 45 min, but if you skip the talking you could probably hack through the game-play portion in around 15. Very straight-forward introduction both to tone and the combat style, but hard to say if it's enough to sway you if you're already on the fence.

I know that a lot of people enjoyed the 'weight' that characters seemed to have in combat, in DA2 a lot of that is gone. Characters move a lot more fluidly, animations are a lot quicker and the gore is a lot more exaggerated. Much bigger explosions of blood when you hit someone with a special. If you were a fan of the slow paced, down to earth presentation before you're gonna be turned off by the change, no doubt about that. It's also gonna come down to whether or not you enjoy the third-person narrative. A lot of people don't enjoy the ME series thanks to that, and it's right here starring you in the face. If that's not your cup of tea the demo isnt gonna change your mind.

As far as the experience itself? I dunno. I liked it.

[rajpoot]

I think I can live with the fast animations.....although most of the times atleast I liked DAO's leisurely pace....
Anyhow, download just completed....nearly 24 hours....so going to experience stuff firsthand.

Edit:
Right, just finished the first play-through as a warrior. Seems to be low damage and area damage kind of class...
-Voiced Hawke is nice. It makes more of a difference than I had expected, and the dialogue seems to be well done.
-The fast combat and over the top animations seemed a bit overwhelming at first, but once one gets used to them, they're OK. (IMO however they ought to have chosen a middle path, faster than DAO but not this fast..still)
-Over the top gore and blood looks all right, I'm afraid it might get old too fast though...I don't want to see red everywhere.
-The new character models look nice. The new art style however (with all that drab brown...and zombie like Darkspawn) is unpleasant.....I atleast, don't like it.

[Beskar]

I just tried the first part of the Demo as Mage (I usually play a Warrior) and wow, I know what I am playing when it comes out.

[Krusader]

Tried Dragon Age 2 demo on both PC & PS3. Just pre-ordered it for the PS3 because the game felt much better to play on console than PC, especially the controls.
Glad at least there doesn't seem to be any strong indicators for when combat starts (like ME2)

[Husar]

I played the demo tonight.

And it felt a bit like I had the wrong demo.
First you get some female Jaqueline Bauer who interrogates someone who then tells the story of the game, if that's how the whole story will be told then that's bad, it feels like you're just grinding through a predetermined path instead of forging your own future, may just be me but that's how flashback stories often make me feel. If it's just for the demo or the first part of the game then I guess it's okay.
Then the menus, so suddenly I'm in Mass Effect or a similar space game, eh? And I just walked around on Mars anyway? So where's that Medieval flair gone? I don't want to play Space Odyssey 2099 with swords and portable ballista(the blood dragon armour and the promotional armour for this one add to this feeling). I mean maybe I do, but in Mass Effect and not in Dragon Age, the japanese flair in the Shogun 2 demo owns in comparison.

The animations were fine, although the mage doing some kind of rain dance while the others are too fast for me to have any idea what's going on or who's winning is a bit new, I guess I could get used to that, and already did to an extent. It did however make the game feel a lot less tactical and more arcadey, may try to play another character and see whether that changes anything.

Oh and the graphical department at BioWare are teh lazy! I already didn't like it a lot that they put 7 different skins onto the same 3 models in the first game, half of which were lady-red and just ugly.
Now they obviously seem to have done the same and some of the textures are still so bad that they just stand out, specifically the armour of that guy you fight towards the end of the demo, the textures have such a bad resolution i just had to notice it. It's especially annoying since a lot of the other textures look just fine.
It seems like all their effort goes towards story, granted, that's important (but not revolutionary either, it always follows the "big bad desaster -> prepare for end battle -> fight end battle" scheme), but the atmosphere is lacking a bit IMO.

That said I haven't given up on it yet, it's just, they could add a reason to buy it other than the hot pirate chick.

[johnhughthom]

I just tried the first part of the Demo as Mage (I usually play a Warrior) and wow, I know what I am playing when it comes out.

Me too. Not Dragon Age 2.

[Greyblades]

Anyone else not particually enthusiastic about not being able to create your own character?

[Monk]

Anyone else not particually enthusiastic about not being able to create your own character?

Sorry, doesn't bother me. The demo doesn't have customization because it's a demo, retail game has full options short of race selection.

As for the third-person narrative there's posts here in the arena that detail Mass Effect 1 and 2 as my favorite modern rpgs, so no that doesn't bother me either :)

[Husar]

Sorry, doesn't bother me. The demo doesn't have customization because it's a demo, retail game has full options short of race selection.

As for the third-person narrative there's posts here in the arena that detail Mass Effect 1 and 2 as my favorite modern rpgs, so no that doesn't bother me either :)

There is a difference in the narrative?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Oh yeah, did anyone else laugh when the woman stabbed her husband right through his breastplate?

I still don't get why they replaced the nice menus of the first game with this futuristic stuff? The layout etc. isn't bad but it's a bit like playing Assassin's Creed, you're not really in this medieval world, just looking at it through some futuristic high tech machine, hurts the atmosphere IMO.

[Monk]

There is a difference in the narrative?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Oh yeah, did anyone else laugh when the woman stabbed her husband right through his breastplate?

The difference between Origins and Mass Effect, a character that does things from within a given frame-work, and one that does them from without. Doesn't bother me, personally. I like both approaches.

But thinking about it now, even Origins was pretty heavily framed. Even given the various customization options you were given. Most games are these days, doesn't stop people from having real issues with it though.

I still don't get why they replaced the nice menus of the first game with this futuristic stuff? The layout etc. isn't bad but it's a bit like playing Assassin's Creed, you're not really in this medieval world, just looking at it through some futuristic high tech machine, hurts the atmosphere IMO.

I didn't have that problem at all.

[seireikhaan]

Played the demo. Can't quite tell if I like it or not. On the plus side, voice acting(aside from the Bauer lady) was pretty darn good. Characters thus far feel mostly solid, in their short appearances. However, I feel like the game was ported over to the makers of Power Thirst. It felt almost like "RAR, look how mature our game is! Because it really is!". Between the unnecessarily large numbers of exploding bodies, the exaggerated combat movement, and Isabella's entirely too gratuitous character, it just felt like the sort of frat-boy rpg that people were concerned Origins would be. On the other hand, the plot elements divulged so far seem pretty on par for "feel", if evaluated in the vacuum of the extraneous silliness.

[Monk]

Between the unnecessarily large numbers of exploding bodies, the exaggerated combat movement, and Isabella's entirely too gratuitous character, it just felt like the sort of frat-boy rpg that people were concerned Origins would be. On the other hand, the plot elements divulged so far seem pretty on par for "feel", if evaluated in the vacuum of the extraneous silliness.

I wouldn't go that far but I can definitely relate to the concern. The exaggerated gore along with certain aspects of the new art scheme are some of the few things keeping me from total hype mode. I'm of the opinion, however, that what I've seen from the story elements is enough to overcome that. Another part of it is that I do enjoy the new combat system, very much so.

[Monk]

double post

[Crazed Rabbit]

I played the demo tonight.

And it felt a bit like I had the wrong demo.
First you get some female Jaqueline Bauer who interrogates someone who then tells the story of the game,

Well named - though the real Jaqueline Bauer would've stabbed the dwarf in the thigh and shouted louder and more aggressively.

The gore and blood and splatter are just overkill to me. That and the exaggerated combat motions prevent me from suspension of disbelief. It's "ho-hum, another 5 giant leaping swings to kill this mook".

After mount and blade, just clicking once to attack, then sitting back and pushing ability hot keys seems so uninvolved. I found I didn't really have to control any of the other characters.

The great difference in texture quality between some spots is distracting.

I never played DA:O, and this demo did nothing to excite me for DA2.

CR

[Secura]

After mount and blade, just clicking once to attack, then sitting back and pushing ability hot keys seems so uninvolved. I found I didn't really have to control any of the other characters.

This doesn't seem to be the case for the X-Box 360 version; you have to hit the 'A' button for each individual strike (even for the Mage's staff attacks) and movement seems a little more important, at least as the Warrior/melee Rogue... when I watched Beskar play the demo on PC, it was simply a case of clicking the enemy you wanted to kill and then waiting for cooldowns, seemed more uninvolved.