Something small and round

[CountArach]

As to why so many people do not acknowledge the true God (mine, of course ), I think this is because of our corrupt nature, and unwillingness to accept what Christianity really stands for. Nobody is going to accept that they are totally depraved, not just a sinner but sin itself, that God has only chosen a few out of the greater part of humanity to have all the promises of the faith. But since they still have this inate knowledge of God's existence, they invent their own god/gods, and a whole belief system around them.

Add to this all the various laws, ceremonies, traditions etc which emerge when a religion becomes more institutionalised, and you see the emergence of Islam, Catholicism etc. And then the faith is no longer about having a relationship with God and living your life under the hand of providence. This fundamental aspect of the faith is missing. However, maybe if you go see that vision of the Virgin Mary in the sun you will get closer to God... or maybe if go and touch those holy saints bones... or mabye if you do some ritual on a holy day.... and this is where all the corruption in modern day religion comes from.

Actually you summarised it perfectly in the first sentence fragment. There are so many gods that it is impossible to know which one is correct, if any truly are at all. The same reason that you don't believe in the other gods is the same reason that they do not accept yours.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Actually you summarised it perfectly in the first sentence fragment. There are so many gods that it is impossible to know which one is correct, if any truly are at all. The same reason that you don't believe in the other gods is the same reason that they do not accept yours.

God told me I'm right.

But for a more useable argument here, Christianity has a major difference from (almost?) all other religions. Whereas Judaism/Islam etc are all about being a good person and living by various laws to get to Heaven, Christianity is about admitting your failure in this respect, and that another guy paid for it.

[KukriKhan]

I also wonder if it's an age thing. Without doing a ton of research, my memory reminds me that many (most?) visions are had by youngish children and older adults - I can't recall one had by a 23 - 45 year old. A chemical condition? A youngish susceptibility to "magic" and an elderly longing for lost magic?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I also wonder if it's an age thing. Without doing a ton of research, my memory reminds me that many (most?) visions are had by youngish children and older adults - I can't recall one had by a 23 - 45 year old. A chemical condition? A youngish susceptibility to "magic" and an elderly longing for lost magic?

Brain tumors in a specific place, according to "House".

All religions depend on suspension of disbelief to begin with. That I can cope with - what confuses me is that if one makes that step, how it is possible to then claim your revelation is the exclusively correct one?

Well, I think you would have to answer this by considering what people get out of belonging to a religion, and what need it satisfies. If belonging to a close knit community is part of that, then rejections of other religious beliefs would naturally follow.

[Viking]

I think this is because all people do on some level believe in a higher power.

Ever heard of atheism?

But for a more useable argument here, Christianity has a major difference from (almost?) all other religions. Whereas Judaism/Islam etc are all about being a good person and living by various laws to get to Heaven, Christianity is about admitting your failure in this respect, and that another guy paid for it.

Judaism is different from almost every other religion because it is still waiting for a prophet to come. Islam is different from almost every other religion because it incorporates other monotheistic beliefs. Etc. etc.

Even if you should discover a truly unique religion; how would this make it right?

[Idaho]

Ireland is only just getting over having the European Catholic equivalant of 400 years of Taliban rule.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Ireland is only just getting over having the European Catholic equivalant of 400 years of Taliban rule.

And you're just getting over several cases of cheap beer, I assume?

CR

[Banquo's Ghost]

Ireland is only just getting over having the European Catholic equivalant of 400 years of Taliban rule.

Not really correct.

Most of the last 400 years were spent under English rule, and whilst a lot of that included religious persecution, certainly there were some significant benefits to an Anglican approach in the latter 150 years or so. Catholicism for much of that time underpinned a sense of cultural difference and thus a factor to focus political rebellion.

No, the real damage from the Catholic hegemony came when we got independence. We traded the increasingly enlightened despotism of a foreign power for the unfettered tyranny of men of the cloth. That was when the "Taliban" came to town, not under the British.

As you know, Banquo, the church expends a fair bit of effort exploring these claims and dismisses the vast bulk of them as coincidences etc.

I think the difference from the 11th century, and why Mother Church is not forced to "prove" itself in court, is that The Church does expend such effort to examine such incidents and does not seek to whip up and exploit bits of hysteria such as these for temporary advantage.

My argument is why there is the distinction? How can Mother Church argue with a straight face that one piece of magic is superior/more acceptable than another? Therein lies the dilemma of all faith - with no independent benchmark of assessment, all claims are surely valid, even unto these crowds chasing their own leprechauns in the sun.

Padre Pio is a classic example. For a long time, this evident self-harmer was rightly scorned by the Church and various popes. Then, as his cult took hold, they reconsidered. On what basis? The marketing franchise (wouldn't be the first time)? He's now a saint. What rational process allows this kind of re-assessment?

[Andres]

My argument is why there is the distinction? How can Mother Church argue with a straight face that one piece of magic is superior/more acceptable than another? Therein lies the dilemma of all faith - with no independent benchmark of assessment, all claims are surely valid, even unto these crowds chasing their own leprechauns in the sun.

That's something that bothers me as well.

Aren't christians supposed to be humble before God?

Isn't it incredibly non-humble, not to say "arrogant", to claim to have the truth about what God said?

Is it humble to tell other people what Gods' message is and how they should interprete it?

That's not very humble, is it?

If there is a God, then who am I to know, understand and interprete His message? I'm just a humble human being.

[Rhyfelwyr]

That's something that bothers me as well.

Aren't christians supposed to be humble before God?

Isn't it incredibly non-humble, not to say "arrogant", to claim to have the truth about what God said?

Is it humble to tell other people what Gods' message is and how they should interprete it?

That's not very humble, is it?

If there is a God, then who am I to know, understand and interprete His message? I'm just a humble human being.

I never really understood this argument. When a Christian claims to know 'the truth', it is not because they discovered it of their own merit. It's not because we see ourselves as spiritually more pure, or more moral, or more clever than anyone else. Instead, it's because of the regeneration which Christ worked in us. Everything is attributed to God, and nothing to ourselves.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Ever heard of atheism?

Yes, I just think that people are naturally inclined towards theism. Maybe it is an evolutionary feature, who knows?

Judaism is different from almost every other religion because it is still waiting for a prophet to come. Islam is different from almost every other religion because it incorporates other monotheistic beliefs. Etc. etc.

Even if you should discover a truly unique religion; how would this make it right?

Of course, every religion has its own unique aspects. However, all the major religions save Christianity have a lot in common. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism etc are all heavily based on ritual, tradition, and clerical/social hierarchies. They have all the features of organised religion such as holy sites/relics, holy days, structured prayer patterns, various festivals, priesthoods etc. Christianity has none of these, they were only later introduced as pagan influences infiltrated the church, as the Book of Revelation said, the Whore of Babylon willl spread her fornication over all the earth (a process we can clearly see happening!).

As to why this makes Christianity right... well, as I said earlier, I believe we are all naturally inclined towards theism, and Chrisitanity is the purest expression of this. All the things mentioned above such as holy relics and ritualistic worship are substitutes which people use for a more direct relationship with the God they by nature acknowledge. However, the principles of Christianity with its outlook on mankind (total depravity) are too difficult to accept, and so these people can never turn to God. And in place of this, they try to get closer to him through rituals, traditions, and building up an ecclesiastical hierarcy, as if they can climb the ladder up to Heaven through it.

[Viking]

Yes, I just think that people are naturally inclined towards theism. Maybe it is an evolutionary feature, who knows?

I am not going to dispute nor agree with that; however you said '[...]all people do on some level believe in a higher power'.

Of course, every religion has its own unique aspects. However, all the major religions save Christianity have a lot in common. Judaism, Islam, Hinduism etc are all heavily based on ritual, tradition, and clerical/social hierarchies. They have all the features of organised religion such as holy sites/relics, holy days, structured prayer patterns, various festivals, priesthoods etc. Christianity has none of these, they were only later introduced as pagan influences infiltrated the church, as the Book of Revelation said, the Whore of Babylon willl spread her fornication over all the earth (a process we can clearly see happening!)

Christianity continues judaism, does it not? If it is as pure as you claim it to be; it has a really odd starting point.

As to why this makes Christianity right... well, as I said earlier, I believe we are all naturally inclined towards theism, and Chrisitanity is the purest expression of this. All the things mentioned above such as holy relics and ritualistic worship are substitutes which people use for a more direct relationship with the God they by nature acknowledge. However, the principles of Christianity with its outlook on mankind (total depravity) are too difficult to accept, and so these people can never turn to God. And in place of this, they try to get closer to him through rituals, traditions, and building up an ecclesiastical hierarcy, as if they can climb the ladder up to Heaven through it.

If all religions but Christianity are tending towards being more ritual, as you claim it, wouldn't then Christianity contradict with human theistic tendencies?

Also, how does human inclination justify a choice anyway; if humans are flawed? You mentioned the word 'fornication'; and since this is a human inclination; shouldn't then "the right religion" include this rather than outlaw it?