A question about Seleucid economy

[Marcus Ulpius]

In my Seleucid campaign, I see that although I control vast territories (even including 90% of Egypt), build mines where it's possible, build harbors where I can, I build garrisons to reduce corruption, etc, etc. But the economy is still pretty basic. I don't have that overwhelming income I had with the Romans or Macedonians. I still have trouble funding expensive barracks and other high level structures, while as Romani I was literary throwing money away. What is the reason? Is Seleucid economy scripted to be less sophisticated than mainland Greek or Roman, or I'm doing something wrong?

[Tartaros]

hello,
the seleucid economy isn´t to bad. but you´ve got a wide country and you have a lot of enemies (= less or no trade) than others.
try to check your corruption. usually it´s about 15.000 mnai per turn. building mines and trade-buildings is a good strategy, but a slowly process. try to keep your borders straight or establish so many protectorats as possible, which bring you a lot of cash.

[satalexton]

it's meant to be like that, the empire was huge and over stretched, not to mention unstable. Just consolidate the east and wipe out the incestous ptolemies...doing a sister is one thing, marrying them is plain wrong. Control eastern mediterranian and you'll see the cash flowing in. A few settlements in teh east have mines so don't lose them to the barbaroi. You may consider giving the most unstable eastern satrapies to baktra, just be careful not to grow a monster...

[seienchin]

Okay heres the deal:
Most seleulid Trading is on land. Sea trading brings way more money,
Huge country= Huge corrption. Build law boni buildings.
Greece is way richer than the seleukid homeland.

Anyway it would be nice to see some pictures of your empire and your income screen to help you.

PS: Historicly the Seleuks had only tempel taxation and some royal estates so their income wasnt to high, but most of the buildings were payed by the local goverments.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Yeah in my Seleukid campaign which I've just about completed (Just need Corinth and Thermon unless of course Gerrha decides to rebel. My family member there had so many good governer traits he raised the population of this small desert province to almost 40,000 and now he died sowing rebellion among its many overheated inhabitants. And -6.5% growth at the same time!) my economy did not start truely flowing until I finally eliminated Parthia and Baktria from the east. Sadly enough, you need large garrisons in your far flung towns, multiple armies to fight on multiple borders, your trade is hampered by enemies, and too many inland provinces or small ports. All of this hurts your economy. Oh and Greek units are expensive too.

I noticed that capturing Egypt helped, but not how I was expecting it too. Instead I got caught up in a war with Carthage which again drained the treasury. However, when I finally gained an upper hand in the North East against Parthia and then went on the offensive against Baktria and finally beat them off, I started making a good surplus. And after Asia Minor became mine I was rolling in dough. Now I have anywhere from 700,000 to 900,000 in my treasury depending on how much I'm building or how much I decide to pay off Carthage to stop attacking or the Sweboz to stop the Lusotann from rolling over everything West of the Hellespont.

Actually I'm mildly interested in fighting the Lusotann now. They just took Ebernorum from the crazy rebel stacks and with Carthage losing all of Italy from one lousy Roman province which rebelled and me turning Macedon into a solely central european power with armies full of celtic levies and thracian levies, i think they might be able to fight to me in Greece. The Sweboz are the dutch boy's finger in the dike.

[Marcus Ulpius]

That's my Empire:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm not saying that the situation is desperate, but it still looks that I get less than it seems, taking into account that vast chunk of land that I control.

[Fluvius Camillus]

Finish off the Ptolies, get Palmyra and maybe you can try to invade the Indus valley, really rich cities found there.Maybe finish off a few other eastern enemies, but watch out for the Saka.

Capturing the Aegean can also bring a lot of wealth but I dont think you want to betray your faithful Mak allies. And last but not least, you will have to conquer the Hayasdan sooner or later.

~Fluvius

[antisocialmunky]

Have anyone played a Seleucid game where they gift away all the areas in the East and Asia Minor so they control just Syria and Mesopotamia? I would think that would be a fun game to play out. I've never really liked playing a huge empire in the begining...

[Marcus Ulpius]

Finish off the Ptolies, get Palmyra and maybe you can try to invade the Indus valley, really rich cities found there.Maybe finish off a few other eastern enemies, but watch out for the Saka.

Capturing the Aegean can also bring a lot of wealth but I dont think you want to betray your faithful Mak allies. And last but not least, you will have to conquer the Hayasdan sooner or later.

~Fluvius

Plamyra indeed should be taken. I was postponing this due to unending wars on all frontiers, but now I should have time to do that. Invasion of Hindus valley is planned, but a lot of preparations need to be done first. I don't have anything resembling an invasion army there at this time. Ptolies are reduced to two small towns and are a buffer between me and the Carthage who do not have any other place to expand except east. Pontos is going to be wiped out soon, they are very annoying - send one two fullstacks of crappy levies to my eastern Anatolia towns. Hayasdan will go after that. They didn't bother me because they are fighting their endless war with Sarmatians, but that area will have to be secured. \Invading Aegean is not an option now. Macs (they are not my ally, I had to kick them out of Micra Asia after they've betrayed me) are throwing some heavy stuff at Greeks and Epirotes; it looks like Getae will join the fun soon. To invade there I will need several good armies and I can scrape one or two average ones at this moment.

[seienchin]

That's my Empire:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm not saying that the situation is desperate, but it still looks that I get less than it seems, taking into account that vast chunk of land that I control.

Ok, I know your problem.
You have less trade income than taxes. Something Ive never seen in my EB career.You need more sea trade. First you need to get the eastern arabian cities. They can trade with your provinces along the persian cost. Second: Get crete. Third: Make trading packts with greece.

You know the provinces in the east are some of the poorest provinces there are in EB. Some have mining, which you need, but most only drain money. No matter how awesome they sound^^.
Your richest provinces by know should be in minor Asia, but they are fare away from your center, so maybe they have some corruption and are less developed?

Last but not least:
Build ports and granaries.
AND! Only use a few Allied generals or governours in Type IV Govermnet. They drain your money like crazy.

I managed to atack minor asia with 5 fullstackes of elite units in my makedon campain, by owning greece, sicily,thrace and some islands. Athens alone made more than 15.000mnai a turn.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Your biggest problem is going to be Carthage soon though. They've been kicked out of spain and sicily so they will gun for your Egyptian provinces soon. Expect fullstacks full of elites (generally the pikemen or sacred band), Maure Infantry and Garamantines, they love to throw those at you.

Capture Cyrene before they go to war with you just because it is a given that they will. Defend it with stone walls, some toxotai, Peltasti, klerechoi phalangitai, and thorakitai. That should mean you won't need a field army to defend that border. If you don't take Cyrene then Carthage can attack 2 cities. Paratoinon is alright but Ammonion gets terrible recruitment options (just Machimoi and Pantodapoi I believe) which would then leave the Nile region open to them.

With the African border secure and not needing an army, those forces can go somewhere else useful and save you quite a bit of money. I suggest eliminating Parthia and Pontos asap and then taking eastern arabian provinces to add to your trade income in the Persian gulf.

Also @ seinechin its not unusual for AS to get more taxes than trade. Same in my campaign and I own almost all of Greece. Reason for this is large Mesopotamian and Persian cities which roll in taxation money but supply little to no sea trade.

[Lysandros]

AND! Only use a few Allied generals or governours in Type IV Govermnet. They drain your money like crazy.

Actually I can strongly recommend using them as governors. In my last Seleucid game which I played under the impression of a Sweboz and a Romani game when I had tons of money in either one, I wanted to find out exactly why it had always been so difficult to become rich as a Seleucid player. Corruption is only a minor reason as you can see in Marcus' financial summary, but upkeep costs for the army are insanely high. So what I did in my last game was installing Type 4-governors in about half of the provinces. I chose those provinces where foreign barracks allowed for much more units than the factional barracks (including Ekbatana and Susa for example, where I switched back to type 1-governments later for the cataphracts). The governors can also replace much of the usual garrison you keep in the provinces far away from the centre of the empire.
It really makes a huge difference if you recruit only as much units as you really need! A type 4 governor himself gets

Effect Influence 5
Effect Law 4
Effect Defence 1

in any case, so he will easily both eliminate corruption and keep a city content even if he is your only garrison. Furthermore, his bodyguard with its great number and his ability to get traits and ancillaries will make him valuable not only as an administrator but as a military force, too.

[Subotan]

If you capture the Gulf States (For Sea Trade), Hayastan and India for Mining moneys, you should yourself in a lot more comfortable position.

Maybe some investment in farming as well, as yours seems quite low.