Child dies due to faith healing; parents get 6 months of jail time

[Viking]

They were very clever 500 years ago, they made the best decisions based on the available evidence. The point is very imprtant, because in 500 years someone may try to call you a "ingored SoB". Take a moment to consider this.

Aren't the people surviving diabetes good enough evidence? Are their survival a mere illusion?

Maybe you don't have the concept of mens rea in Norway? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea Thankfully we have it in England and the US. Murder requires a very specific mens rea, unless you can demonstrate that it's just manslaughter.

They must have known very well that there was a great possibility that a simple medical treatment was all that would've been needed to make their child healthy. This makes a mind as guilty and irresponsible as you can have it.

When you take completely unnecessary risks with other persons life, it is murder if they die. If they so desperatly needed to, they could have waited with applying their mumbo jumbo after a visit to the doctor, in case it turned out there was no simple cure.

[HoreTore]

They must have known very well that there was a great possibility that a simple medical treatment was all that would've been needed to make their child healthy. This makes a mind as guilty and irresponsible as you can have it.

When you take completely unnecessary risks with other persons life, it is murder if they die. If they so desperatly needed to, they could have waited with applying their mumbo jumbo after a visit to the doctor, in case it turned out there was no simple cure.

Indeed it is! If your actions can result in death, it's murder no matter if you intended it or not. For example, you might hit someone just to hit him, but if that person dies because of the punch(which is quite possible), then it's murder, because you must've known that was an extreme consequence of your action.

Same applies here. Murder.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Aren't the people surviving diabetes good enough evidence? Are their survival a mere illusion?

That's not the point, the point is intent.

They must have known very well that there was a great possibility that a simple medical treatment was all that would've been needed to make their child healthy. This makes a mind as guilty and irresponsible as you can have it.

When you take completely unnecessary risks with other persons life, it is murder if they die. If they so desperatly needed to, they could have waited with applying their mumbo jumbo after a visit to the doctor, in case it turned out there was no simple cure.

Indeed it is! If your actions can result in death, it's murder no matter if you intended it or not. For example, you might hit someone just to hit him, but if that person dies because of the punch(which is quite possible), then it's murder, because you must've known that was an extreme consequence of your action.

Same applies here. Murder.

Voluntary manslaughter at best, not murder. Murder requires the intent to kill. In English Law Lit., "the killing of another with malice of forethought".

Here there was no intent to kill, ergo no "murder". That doesn't mean there was no homicide.

[Beskar]

Pretty much what Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla says. It is manslaughter, not murder, as there is no intent to kill. They can however, have very similar punishments. Depending on circumstances.

[HoreTore]

That's not the point, the point is intent.

Voluntary manslaughter at best, not murder. Murder requires the intent to kill. In English Law Lit., "the killing of another with malice of forethought".

Here there was no intent to kill, ergo no "murder". That doesn't mean there was no homicide.

Who cares?

My point is jail time for the both of them, why on earth you think I care in the slightest about which law paragraph is used to convict them is quite frankly beyond my imagination.


Anyway, we Norwegians thankfully drew our bureaucratic ideals from the french, we have none of these silly english concepts, and here they would stand trial for murder, as explained earlier. Manslaughter is what we call it when someone is run over by a car, we call it murder when a punch goes wrong and results in death, a baby is shaken to death or when someone denies their child medical care.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Who cares?

My point is jail time for the both of them, why on earth you think I care in the slightest about which law paragraph is used to convict them is quite frankly beyond my imagination.

The sentencing options are different depending on the law paragraph, and it is necessary to use the proper section of the law to convict them. If you aren't proper in your application of the law it loses all respect in the eyes of the educated citizenry.

Anyway, we Norwegians thankfully drew our bureaucratic ideals from the french, we have none of these silly english concepts, and here they would stand trial for murder, as explained earlier. Manslaughter is what we call it when someone is run over by a car, we call it murder when a punch goes wrong and results in death, a baby is shaken to death or when someone denies their child medical care.

A punch going wrong and resulting in death could be considered second degree murder, depending on the specifics of the case.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Who cares?

My point is jail time for the both of them, why on earth you think I care in the slightest about which law paragraph is used to convict them is quite frankly beyond my imagination.

The punishement should fit the crime, the Law should be just. Two reasons why you should care.

Anyway, we Norwegians thankfully drew our bureaucratic ideals from the french, we have none of these silly english concepts, and here they would stand trial for murder, as explained earlier. Manslaughter is what we call it when someone is run over by a car, we call it murder when a punch goes wrong and results in death, a baby is shaken to death or when someone denies their child medical care.

Ironic, given that our Law draws heavily on Danish and Norwegian concepts.

[HoreTore]

The punishement should fit the crime, the Law should be just. Two reasons why you should care.

......And that's exactly why I object to 6 months of "jail" for killing your own daughter.

[Rhyfelwyr]

......And that's exactly why I object to 6 months of "jail" for killing your own daughter.

Since you believe doing time is all about rehabilitation, what do you propose for these parents that would actually make them healthy members of society?

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

......And that's exactly why I object to 6 months of "jail" for killing your own daughter.

No, because intent is important, hence the importance of the mens rea.