Child dies due to faith healing; parents get 6 months of jail time

[jabarto]

Seems there's been a lot of judicial misconduct lately. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8294225.stm

Give people freedom of conscience, you thought police.

Your "freedom of conscience" ends when it intrudes on the rights of others.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Seems there's been a lot of judicial misconduct lately. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8294225.stm



Your "freedom of conscience" ends when it intrudes on the rights of others.

Actually, I'd say that sentence was quite fair, really. A longer prison term would merely expose them to the viscitudes of the system, and wouldn't teach them anything. They aren't "bad" people.

As far as this case goes, there's not difference between a priest and a judge in this instance. That's why marriage has been defined as between a man and a woman in the UK.

[jabarto]

They aren't "bad" people.

I'm not a fan of egregious prison terms myself but good god, this is about as clear-cut as you can get; what they did was manslaughter and the judge should be disbarred.

[HoreTore]

I'm not a fan of egregious prison terms myself but good god, this is about as clear-cut as you can get; what they did was manslaughter and the judge should be disbarred.

I'd say it's a clear case of premeditated murder. The child had diabetes, that's not an "instant kill"-disease, the child would've been sick for years, and the parents refused her medical treatment all those years.

10 years minimum.

And yes, these people are bad people. They killed off their own child, that automatically makes you scum.

[Samurai Waki]

I'm not a fan of egregious prison terms myself but good god, this is about as clear-cut as you can get; what they did was manslaughter and the judge should be disbarred.

Agreed... the whole case had the horrendous stench of favoritism, after reading case notes on it. The prosecution even seemed to be less than enthusiastic about putting these people in prison. It should get an IA Review, but I doubt that will happen.

[jabarto]

And I just found out about another similar case from a while back. I think I'll make a new thread for this topic so this one doesn't get derailed.

[HoreTore]

Seems there's been a lot of judicial misconduct lately. - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8294225.stm

....Six months for MURDER?!??!?!

[HoreTore]

Hell, isn't the current POTUS a child of an interracial(even if short-lived) wedding? Some are really not awar of the era they're living in.....

Yup, and the worst kind too, with european mother and african father.

Dem blackies be stealin' our womenz!!11

[Louis VI the Fat]

One parent will serve the term in March and the other in September. The judge told the Neumanns this would give them time to "think about Kara and what God wants you to learn from this".

He added that they were "very good people, raising their family, who made a bad decision, a reckless decision". He added: "God probably works through other people, some of them doctors."

I'm more worried about this than about the death of the child. Outrageous. A judge of the same cult judging fellow cultists.

America has a law, and reason. That ought to be the guiding principle of a judge. Not the membership or not of the same persuasion as s/he himself.

Faith replacing medicine, and cult membership replacing justice. What a travesty. This would not not stand if race instead of faith was at the basis of this case. ('You are good White people. I'll excuse you for killing a negro. The White race works through your hands')

///

I think six months is about right. My sense of justice does not really cry for excessively long imprisonment.
These parents are a mere symptom of a larger wrong. They were send as children to authorities who told them a Supreme Being interferes in their lives. Talks to them directly. Hears their prayers. They were told by another authority, their teacher, that this Being created the world by his own hands, and that they should mistrust rational science. They are told as adults by another authority, a judge, that this Supreme Being will be the one to pass judgement on them, so that He should be the guiding principle of their conscience and their actions, instead of the words and deeds of their fellow man.

So all that is their fault, really, is actually taking these authorities for their word.

Perhaps interpreting their words unconventionally. Who can blame them? 'Jesus heals, you need to pray, he will hear you! Oh, but you do need to call a doctor, because Jesus might, in fact, not hear you after all'. This ambiguity is too much for most minds.


So I say, in a theocracy, as is the case here, one can scarcely blame the individual. Not these small-minded simple folk, but their judge, their creationist teacher and their priest should stand trial.

[Strike For The South]

I'm more worried about this than about the death of the child. Outrageous. A judge of the same cult judging fellow cultists.

America has a law, and reason. That ought to be the guiding principle of a judge. Not the membership or not of the same persuasion as s/he himself.

Faith replacing medicine, and cult membership replacing justice. What a travesty. This would not not stand if race instead of faith was at the basis of this case. ('You are good White people. I'll excuse you for killing a negro. The White race works through your hands')

///

I think six months is about right. My sense of justice does not really cry for excessively long imprisonment.
These parents are a mere symptom of a larger wrong. They were send as children to authorities who told them a Supreme Being interferes in their lives. Talks to them directly. Hears their prayers. They were told by another authority, their teacher, that this Being created the world by his own hands, and that they should mistrust rational science. They are told as adults by another authority, a judge, that this Supreme Being will be the one to pass judgement on them, so that He should be the guiding principle of their conscience and their actions, instead of the words and deeds of their fellow man.

So all that is their fault, really, is actually taking these authorities for their word.

Perhaps interpreting their words unconventionally. Who can blame them? 'Jesus will heal, you need to pray, he will hear you! Oh, but you do need to call a doctor, because he really want'. This ambiguity is too much for most minds.


So I say, in a theocracy, as is the case here, one can scarcely blame the individual. Not these smallminded simple folk, but their judge, their creationist teacher and their priest should stand trial.

[Andres]

I'm more worried about this than about the death of the child. Outrageous. A judge of the same cult judging fellow cultists.

America has a law, and reason. That ought to be the guiding principle of a judge. Not the membership or not of the same persuasion as s/he himself.

Faith replacing medicine, and cult membership replacing justice. What a travesty. This would not not stand if race instead of faith was at the basis of this case. ('You are good White people. I'll excuse you for killing a negro. The White race works through your hands')

///

I concur.

What about the impartiality of the judge? Isn't that a fundamental principle in the US as well? This judge is clearly not impartial. A disgrace

To make it worse, he brings God into his judgement. Religion has nothing to do with the law and doesn't belong in the motivation of a verdict

[Samurai Waki]

I concur.

What about the impartiality of the judge? Isn't that a fundamental principle in the US as well? This judge is clearly not impartial. A disgrace

To make it worse, he brings God into his judgement. Religion has nothing to do with the law and doesn't belong in the motivation of a verdict

Yep. We were just talking about this today during class. I wouldn't think Wisconsin would be so daft as to chair an outspoken Christian Judge to rule on a case involving the Christian Religion. The state messed up big time, but like I said, I'm not sure if it warrants The BIA commissioning a Review of the Case, just because they disagree with the verdict. Either way, they're trying to get an appeal, and they may have messed up big time in making that decision, if the next Judge feels they got off too lightly.

[jabarto]

EDIT: Nevermind, misread the article I was going to post. Nothing to see here.

[Papewaio]

Meh, it doesn't matter what they believe, Evolution wins yet again.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Meh, it doesn't matter what they believe, Evolution wins yet again.

What?

[naut]

Meh, it doesn't matter what they believe, Evolution wins yet again.

In a morbid way I concur.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Meh, it doesn't matter what they believe, Evolution wins yet again.

Too harsh Pape, too harsh.

[Strike For The South]

What I'm saying is that they have already been sentenced by the laws of nature. Our justice system pales in comparison to them cutting off the branches of their own tree.

The happiness is not aimed at the death of the child, it is aimed at how puny our system of laws is compared with the laws of nature. Ours we can plead, bargin, parole, get let off. The other always gets its man and is fair in a very unforgiving manner. Mind you just because we all die doesn't mean we should be giving the system an assist.

Meh, it doesn't matter what they believe, Evolution wins yet again.

And they let you wear green?

[Banquo's Ghost]

I'm more worried about this than about the death of the child. Outrageous. A judge of the same cult judging fellow cultists.

America has a law, and reason. That ought to be the guiding principle of a judge. Not the membership or not of the same persuasion as s/he himself.

Faith replacing medicine, and cult membership replacing justice. What a travesty. This would not not stand if race instead of faith was at the basis of this case. ('You are good White people. I'll excuse you for killing a negro. The White race works through your hands')

///

I think six months is about right. My sense of justice does not really cry for excessively long imprisonment.
These parents are a mere symptom of a larger wrong. They were send as children to authorities who told them a Supreme Being interferes in their lives. Talks to them directly. Hears their prayers. They were told by another authority, their teacher, that this Being created the world by his own hands, and that they should mistrust rational science. They are told as adults by another authority, a judge, that this Supreme Being will be the one to pass judgement on them, so that He should be the guiding principle of their conscience and their actions, instead of the words and deeds of their fellow man.

So all that is their fault, really, is actually taking these authorities for their word.

Perhaps interpreting their words unconventionally. Who can blame them? 'Jesus heals, you need to pray, he will hear you! Oh, but you do need to call a doctor, because Jesus might, in fact, not hear you after all'. This ambiguity is too much for most minds.


So I say, in a theocracy, as is the case here, one can scarcely blame the individual. Not these small-minded simple folk, but their judge, their creationist teacher and their priest should stand trial.

Wonderful post, Louis.